>> god bless her soul. >> the joe biden vp comedy tour. you will vp your pants laughing. >> thanks everybody. it's not that easy this time of year for reporters to get set out to cover the winter weather. however, sometimes when covering the dangers of sliders and cars on slick roads, it's not just the cars that are the danger. >> we know it's not going to get any better. in fact, it will probably get worse as long as this quarter is opened or dislike article by behind the buses are coming through soon. a number of close calls but still fun to watch. >> thank you so much for ruining the fun. a total complete killjoy. >> okay, okay. spent the official obama campaign slogan as we told you is forward, one word with a

period at the end of it. apparently caused some angst inside the campaign at first but now they're okay with it. with just a few weeks left until the can democratic convention one late night show insist president obama and vice president biden are continue to try out and search for the perfect general election campaign slogan. >> you can't, you should and don't even try. >> there's no jobs for human spirit the economy is bad. it's all my fault and i can't fix it. >> i'm betting on china. >> i'm in over my head. >> not enough money to pay the bank. and we have to move. >> you should vote for mr. romney. >> apparently one should manage to get some behind the scenes video of the president. we told you last week about for lucky donors who won a campaign contest to a dinner with president obama. at least they thought they were

lucky until the bill came. >> watch would have been. not a fancy place but watch what happens when the check comes. the check is put down. the president very slyly slides it across. >> and look how much the check is. $14 trillion. 14 trillion. >> thanks everybody. that is it for this special report. >> you couldn't make it up, but why bother? there it is. i want to thank steve and just encase has the urge to start drinking of the, we have supplied them with a case of pbr. that's how he celebrates. the annual mrc dishonors award, as its winners chosen by distinguished cross-section of

the vast right wing conspiracy department of media affairs, you may not have known that that existed, but it does, for our gala it's bee been a star-studdd assembly and this year is no exception. this year we have her 2012, 12 judges. and it is my pleasure to introduce them to you. ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> our final presenter this evening is a man who of course needs no introduction but is going to get one anyway just in case. he is well-known in the conservative movement as both an intellectual heavy lifter and one of our best and cleverest humorists. more important he's a past presenter or our dishonors awards, he's the founding editor of "national review online" and is currently editor at large. is a visiting fellow at aei and a fox news contributor. how many jobs can one guy have? is a national columnist apparently more number one "new

york times" best selling author, and more importantly to him, and i read directly from his bio, he lives in washington, d.c. with his wife, jessica, his daughter, dog, cat, and a rotating lineup of fish and snails that do not seem to live long enough to ward permanent status in his biography. ladies and gentlemen, i give you mr. jonah goldberg ♪ ♪ >> first of all, with steve here and here, there's no goatee on special report tonight. in less than national emergency. i want to start off with a complaint. i was told it was going to be a

teleprompter, and this is my one shot at being presidential and now it's gone. i'm truly happy to be. i'm happier than helen thomas at a hamas rally. i'm happier than joe biden on line jell-o day at the home. let's just get this thing started. there's something i've come to realize after many years as a political commentator and a researcher of political history, close study of historical literature, and maybe you've noticed this, too. they don't like us. liberals in the press would rather have their finger in -- skynet is mad at me. liberals and the press would rather have their fingernails pulled out, there is punctured by and sharpened number two pencils. they would rather jell-o row so

with debbie wasserman schultz. they would rather have their favorite endangered species sewn into the small intestine than to even acknowledge that conservatives are human beings, nevermind just offer us a nice how are you doing. this is not a new phenomenon. hostilities begin the moment of we up the right wingers chose to publicly championed bizarre ideas, like liberty, personal responsibility, patriotism, virtue. and, of course, that most fearsome of all four letter words, as joe biden might say, g-o-d, god. it's a love-hate relationship. they love to it is. my favorite example was very god water to in 1964 when he was running for president, he went on a vacation in europe and

daniel schorr, then of the cbs evening news senior foreign correspondent reported that barry goldwater's planned trip to europe was really a clandestine effort to meet up with neo-nazi elements in hitler's stomping ground in order to coordinate the fall campaign. goldwater actually sued and won, one of the very few times we get libeled or slander by the press and get punishment for. since 1987 the media research center has been documenting these attacks and providing fodder for people like me and others to sort of turn tables on them. the trend has always been the more you admire a leader, a conservative leader like goldwater or reagan or clarence thomas or jesse helms or rush limbaugh, the entire congressional class of 1994 or the tea party movement mostly of united states western civilization, basically anything that is on the side of truth, justice and the american way, we

get demonized for it and treated as if it were some sort of otherworldly evil creatures. so tonight we give you some snippets down memory lane of the past 25 years. ♪ >> i think liberalism lives, the notion that we don't have to stay where we are as a society. we have promises to keep, and it is liberalism whether people like it or not, which is animated all the years of my life. what on earth did conservatism ever accomplish for our country? >> after eight years of what many saw as the reagan administration's benign neglect of the poor and studied in differences of civil rights, a lot of those who lived through this week over town, the best

thing that george bush is that he is not ronald reagan. >> largely as result of policies and priorities of the reagan administration, more people are becoming poorer and staying for than any time since world war ii. >> if there's anything left of ronald reagan's trickle-down theory, it seems to be anxiety which seems to be trickling down to just about every segment of our society. >> if you gave clarence thomas all little flower, you would think -- here is a man who is against everything that has lifted the level of life of millions of blacks. >> i hope his wife feeds him mustard eggs and butter and he dies like many black men, of heart disease. that so i feel. he is a reprehensible person.

>> you call to gingrich in your words trickle down terrorists who face their agenda on division, exclusion and fear. you think middle-class americans need protection from that group? >> the new republican majority took a big step today on the legislative agenda, to demolish or damage government aid programs. many of them designed to help children and the poor. >> the bombing in oakland the city has focused renewed attention on the rhetoric that's been coming from the right and those who cater to angry white men. although no one is suggesting right wing greater jocks approve of violence, the extent to which the approach fosters violence is being questioned by many observers. >> i don't think i think jesse jones defenders here. >> not me. i think you have to be worried about that's what's going on in the good lord's mind, because if there's retributive justice, he will get aids from a transfusion or one of his grandchildren will

get it. >> it finally dawned on me that the person can start has reminded me of facially all this time was heinrich himmler, including his glasses. >> this advice, mr. bush, shut the hell up, good night and good luck. >> they have waved signs liking president obama to hitler and the devil can raise questions about whether he was really born in this country, falsely accuse him of planning to set up dead panels -- death panels, and called everything from a fascist to socialist to a time in as. at it all up and some prominent obama supporters are now saying that it paints a picture of an opposition driven in part i a refusal to accept a black president. >> the republicans lie. they want to see you dead.

they would rather make money off your dead corpse. they kind of like it when that woman has cancer and they don't have anything for her. >> rush limbaugh is getting to look more and more like mr. big, at some point somebody's going to jam a co to power in his head and he will explode like a giant blimp. >> i'm not getting used to the big screen thing. i feel like there should be a long line of chinese soldiers marching in front of me or something. anyway, 2012 is no different. national leaders continue to embrace and conservative values and reports continued their character assassination campaign. for what they call the news. we give you the finalist for the 2012, i want to read his, damn those conservatives to hell

award. thank you, thank you. our first nominee is an accomplished journalist, howard fineman whose former with "newsweek" until it was sold for 1 dollar, and apparently they couldn't handle his salary after this we move to the "huffington post" is journalistic value is somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.75, to $1.80. apparently without capitation they can handle his salary now. on july 23, on the july 23 hardball, he hit a trifecta insulting that romney, tea party and the republican party all in one sound bite. >> he is playing to an has from the beginning of the campaign played to the kind of nativist base of the tea party. and by nativist iming people who are in essence afraid of the world. the republican party is going to cripple itself beyond recognition if they don't quit being xenophobes.

>> no damn those conservatives to hell award is complete unless it includes a head slap against rush limbaugh. usually it's some sort of snotty lecture. into the look. the head shaking in disbelief, the upper lip curled and disdain. the lower lip quivering in whole or. the body and epileptic spasm. uncontrolled bowel movements, incoherent demands that you get from their -- i'm exaggerating a bit. maybe they didn't curl their lips. on march 2, cnn's pure morgan, i march 2, piers morgan his national audience could sit in the back seat of rush limbaugh's mercedes has little, mounted his little hyper and delivered his pathetic little broadside that

no one heard because no one watches them, except for the poor staff at the mrc has been handcuffed to the radiator for grievous sins and is punished. >> disgusting comment, the work of an archaic old dinosaur living in an ugly swan. to think it's okay to degrade decent young women for sport and ratings. well, it is an. shame on you, rush limbaugh. >> our final nominee for this award is nbc's and curry. on april 10, she conducted with nbc called, i want to get this word right, and interview. our guest was paul ryan necklace as she travels off a series of talking points from a very official sun and, therefore, trustworthy and partial organization. unfortunately, it is. is just another far left pro-obama outlet. listen as she demands it will

hurt poor people and it will suffer and that is a matter of fact, he doesn't even like poor people. paul ryan deserves a nobel peace prize for not beating about the head and neck with a semi frozen flounder. >> budget and policy priorities, you are smiling because you know about this but it says 62% of the savings in your budget would come from cutting programs for the poor. that between eight and 10 million people will be kicked off the footsteps. that you would cut medicare by 200 billion, and medicaid and other health programs by like 770 built in. where is the empathy in this budget? do you acknowledge that poor people will suffer under this budget that you showed a lack of empathy to poor people in this budget? >> now, of course, anyone of these, of course any of these champions of journalistic objectivity and intellectual nuance could have won tonight, and you conservatives -- the

damn those conservatives to hell award. thank you. and behind them stand another dozen who could've qualified but for our limitations. the judges had to choose only one, and choose they did. the winner of the 2012 damn those conservatives to hell award goes to -- a new car. no. goes to the woman who police paul ryan is some kind of underweight lex luther with better hair out to destroy the world as we know it, nbc's ann curry. ♪ >> where is the empathy in this budget? do you acknowledge that poor people will suffer under this budget, that you showed a lack of empathy to poor people in this budget?

♪ ♪ >> i didn't know about the music. ann curry couldn't make it tonight. she is at a local orphanage telling the kids that paul ryan killed santa because they wouldn't eat their vegetables. accepting the damn those conservatives to hell award is a lady who knows full well what it's like to have the kitchen sink thrown at you. there's a special patrol that's reserved for two reasons. one, she's pro-life, and if there's one conservative and if there's one conservative who tries liberal media bat guano crazy, it's a pro-lifer. but not only issued prolactin she's an currently successful pro-life but she was an original founder of the susan b. anthony list and as its president, and

as its present as integral to one of the premier pro-life workstations in the country. her fun has been in cement and helping to elect over 100 members of congress. she's a tireless defender of the unborn. she deserves our nation's gratitude. the youngest of the young can't do it, and we must have faith that a merciful god has been in heaven. but we can, ladies and gentlemen, thank marjorie dannenfelser. [applause] bee♪ ♪ >> do you know what truly supercool, is that this is perfect because ann and i are really tight. you know, marty, my husband and i don't even know where you begin and ann ins.

you are so the same person. but he kind of said under his breath so is maybe more like couldn't hear them. maybe is more like endless or maybe chatter was in there, i'm not sure. but ann and i spent a lot of time trying to figure out what's wrong with you guys and paul ryan, how we are really great, how we are kind and good and generous. but what is wrong with you people. and it's kind of easy to figure out. we got together last night to talk about this, and first of all we are women. that's easy. we are part of the sisterhood. we did it. we absolutely understand what in fashion means and we have the sisterhood. we have the feminist sisterhood. we have allies about planned parenthood to really understand compassion very deeply. and the biggest us over there, the founder, really understand compassion. she said really innovative

things, really compassionate people come up with innovative strategies about how to really help the poor, and the really innovative strategy that market singer came up with was let's eliminate them before they get to be a drag on all of us. that it is innovative and that is pretty much the compassion that we decided was where we are coming from. catholics, margaret sanger said useless breeders, and unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should've been born at all. and you know, we have a big family. i got a lot of big families who. but you guys are the problem. you're not living compassionate life because the most merciful thing a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it. i'm not kidding. you can't make that a. that's actually what she said. ann and i, we figured out to be compassionate, there is a class of human beings that pretty much human. pretty much clear out underbrush

so everything is better for all of us. and they won't suffer. look, i am very thrilled come in all seriousness, to accept this award on ann's behalf, and to actually thank from the bottom of my heart brent bozell and what they've been doing for the past 25 years to truly expose what partisan passion truly is. and all series does. and that is always, the pro-life cause has always been central to -- with their staff and all of you, there's been so much progress. thank you so much. [applause] ♪ you didn't pay enough to see

me dance. this is the point of personal privilege. we are doing the barbra streisand -- the barbra streisand political iq. and barbara streisand, i have a mild obsession with barbra streisand. i'm not quite like following around with a gray buick with my trunk line with garbage bags or anything, but it's not a healthy obsession. one of the reasons why, when the "l.a. times" pick me up as a columnist, barbra streisand publicly canceled her subscription to the "l.a. times" and protests. [applause] >> in my career there are very few higher watermarks than that. so look, and offers some people say the conservatives shouldn't be such a pain in the aspect of hollywood liberals, but for some fact is is just the fastest route to their brain. indeed, over the years on this somber occasion called the dishonest and we've been honored to listen and ponder the great

mysteries surrounding the amazing force of magic, the hollywood brain. the beauty is lots of people think hollywood liberals are really, really dumb and too stupid to be spellcheckers at an m&m factory, but hollywood liberals speak and remove all doubt. don't believe me? we're going to examine the record over the past 25 years with some highlights. there's more words. celebrities give speeches -- unser. celebrities give speeches at rallies on the time but what are they saying? watch the compilation and you understand whether comrades in the liberal news media always focus on the crowd shot. will give you a quick sample. there's mike myers talk about katrina in hollywood concert for hurricane relief with some his partner, the rapper kanye west, totally unprovoked says something not only out of left field, not even out of left field stands, but slightly to the left of the satellite

imaging device viewing the stadium from space. there's rosie o'donnell proving she did, in fact, graduate from black helicopter you, with a masters in skyscraper engineering. then there's this head turner, god love him. he's here to committee continues to prove once again that he's a few fries short of a happy meal. there's, proving children all she knows about democracy from the writing on a bathroom portage on adam occupy wall street protest. and finally there's the namesake award sure why this award is named after her. brit hume is beyond priceless in this clip. roll the tape. >> they have already squandered your social security. they better put our uterus is in a lockbox and keep their hands off them.

>> the destruction of the spirit of the people of southern louisiana and mississippi may end up being the most tragic loss of lost. >> george bush doesn't care about black people. >> if you believe in a conspiracy in terms of the attacks of 9/11? >> no, but i do believe it is the first time in history fire has melted steel. building seven which collapsed in on itself it is impossible building to fall the way felt without explosives being involved. >> it will be eight degrees hotter in 30 or 40 years, and basically none of the crops will grow. most of the people will die. the rest of us will be cannibals. >> this is about hating a black man in the white house. this isn't racism strata. that is nothing but a bunch of tea bagging rednecks. >> barack obama as a person is a

fantastic individual, but barack obama has an idea marks an evolutionary flashpoint for humanity. >> you've probably heard or read that at a democratic party fundraiser over the weekend from barbra streisand performed a reward of her hit song memories from the movie the way we were ♪ ♪ scattered pictures of the house we left behind ♪ ♪ lovely democratic memories ♪ of the way we were ♪ as long as democrats were the majority, i could sleep at night's ♪ ♪ not weep nights

♪ >> in the meantime, stay tuned for news. fair, balanced and i'm breaking. >> just making me feel unsafe now. okay, so now we're going to look at the finals from 2012. they are still there, like those clapping monkeys in those battery commercials, they're still spinning about making lots of noise and calling it progress. our first offered for the 2012 barbra streisand political iq award for celebrity vapidity comes from the actor morgan freeman. look -- look, morgan freeman is a great actor. he seems like a really nice guy. in the movies he's had some

fantastic roles. even though he only seems to play the exact same guy in movies, the problem is when he is not in the movies, he's not that guy. i just wish he could sort of that guy. when i turn the cameras off. what is it about seven of these actor simply because they memorize and deliver lines, that they're now geopolitical experts, to? on september 23 of last year, he was anything mr. freeman, asked him about the old standby, gop racism. when freeman somebody came an expert on the keyboard. and i'll put money on it, he has never been within 100 miles of a tea party rally. >> house obama help the process -- how has obama help it navigate the racism? >> made it worse. made it worse. look, the tea party us who are

controlling the republican party, their stated policy, publicly stated, is to do whatever it takes to see to it that obama only served one term. want, what underlines that? screw the country, we're going to do what ever we've got to do to get this black man, do whatever we can to get this black man out of. >> so it's not necessarily a racist thing. >> it is a racist thing. >> that was gordon from "sesame street." by the, speak of celebrities turning sour, what the hell happened to david letterman? i remember -- she knows. i remember, i remember the days when it's actually like really, really, really funny. now he's like one of those guys who, like and even though there's a dozen into your nose still walks up right next to you

in the bathroom and just source telling all their opinions and the kind of creepy and disturbing. ladies, take my word for it, okay. but seriously is ghana turn into the verbal equivalent of someone who sends you e-mail in all caps because if it's in all cats it's got to be true. on may 15th commuters into getting in be b.c. news anchor brian williams. now have visibly uncomfortable at even williams becomes as letterman raises the antennae of his invisible helmet and begins communicating with mars. >> the day after the 9/11 attacks than one priority in america, we've got to get bin laden to got to get bin laden. so eight years go by. we still haven't gotten bin laden. george w. bush a one points, he doesn't think much about bin laden. and in her own we invaded afghanistan and we invaded iraq because cheney want to help out

his buddies at halliburton. and grab of all the oil. i think that they went soft on the project because they were worried about upsetting the saudi arabian royalty buddies. so now, osama bin laden is finally gunned down by barack obama, displaying great courage and great intelligence. what more do you want to lead your country and that kind of courage and that kind of intelligence? >> our final offering tonight comes from hugo chavez i like to come hugo chavez's favorite is would. if your sean penn, you have something really, really asinine you want to get out there, where do you go? that's right, piers morgan. >> on october 14, mr. candon of one of the most asinine comments ever on national television.

can we call cnn national television anymore? and even worse, he insisted that we know that this was coming assisted we note this is an original thought. he came up with it. >> we have what i can't get the in word out of the white house party, the tea party. at the end of the day there's a big bubble coming out of their heads saying can we just lynch him? >> he is so charming. how do you decide a winner here? the winner of the 2012 barbra streisand political iq award for celebrity vapidity goes to baby hugo, sean penn ♪

♪ >> we have what i call the get the n-word out of the white house party, the tea party but at the end of the day there's a big bubble coming out of their heads saying, you know, can we just lynch him? ♪ >> i'm sorry, i'm drink so much water shy. i spoke an enormous amount of pot before got it on i got crazy dry mouth. unfortunately, sean penn couldn't be here tonight. we tried to convince him that republicans are all just -- but he didn't believe us. so we had a thought.

it is well-established that the hollywood left is ground zero for funding of political causes and candidates. digitalis something that is now ground zero special interest or our site. it's just individuals devoted to preserving freedom and the american dream. they are our ground zero. there's one couple that has been incredibly generous to many, many causes and many, many leaders, all of us are at all of us have been beneficiaries share deep sense of gratitude for their patriotism and their philanthropy. but as so often is the case it is because of their generosity and their patriotism and devotion to tradition that this couple has been repeatedly pilloried by the press. when foster and lynn friess agreed to sponsor tonight's dinner, they had no idea that it was our intention to honor them. we do so now with great joy. please rise and thank you real heroes of the conservative movement, foster and lynn friess. [applause]

♪ ♪ >> it truly is disappointing that sean penn couldn't be here. but some people are concerned because i'm not known as the most humble guy, so being able to do this introduction, that's an honor in itself, which i'm grateful to branch. and because of his humility thing i'm decided to write a book, america's 10 most dynamic list of today and how i trained at the other nine. now, i think, brent, i'm so touched. i mean, i often to have when they play the star-spangled banner, but tonight even the

pledge of allegiance got me, to see your son up. let's give those soldiers a big round of applause. [applause] >> it also reminded me of a cute little story. out in wyoming we have this wal-mart store and they had this greater and they called me and said you're the best greater we've got. you know where things are coming your so helpful. but we need to talk to you because you've been late quite a bit lately. we see on your resume should experience in a military. you weren't late in the military, were you speaker she said yeah, i kind was. what did they say to you? it was a something like, what you like some coffee, admiral? [laughter] >> out west when you're wearing a cowboy hat, and someone does something really terrific, you go, tip of the hat to that person or organization.

i'd like to say a tip of the hat to this organization for all of you for supporting it, for the staff and for brent. and -- [applause] >> and using the phrase that we here on another station, i am glad that we have this organization for keeping them honest. >> god bless you all. [applause] ♪ >> kind of miss that and some. provided clarity, doesn't it? little did we know when the walking dead down we have to fight them all over again back

here. [applause] >> and it's amazing to me listening to the clips of barbra streisand and the rest, it's amazing how they been able to airbrush their own history in such an extraordinary way. it reminds me of men in black with that tool they have at the end that cleanses their memory. it's what democrats have done with a history of the own party. it's appalling, amazing. made its psychologically healthy something,don't know. it's been a grea evening. it's about to come to an end. at least the official proceeding, music to follow, party to follow. lots of the bogra, i have no doubt. and my final duty tonight is to introduce the man himself. brent bozell, with some final remarks for all y'all, as they say a few miles south of here.

so without further, ladies and gentlemen, mr. brent bozell. ♪ ♪ >> thank you. thank you. thank you very much. to my son, to all the sons and all the daughters fighting force overseas -- fighting for us overseas. [applause] >> promised him a toast. drinking and speaking, i like that. thank you, chris plante, first and foremost. you've been a wonderful emcee, and -- [applause] and he's worth every penny.

in truth, chris has been a long time friend of this organization. and i do thank chris for everything he's done for the country and for our cause. we have lots of people to thank quickly tonight. we have noise in the back. this is a good thing. lots of people to thank tonight. bonne, jessica, tim and lisa of verizon's television, brent baker, jimmy sullivan, melissa, cory parks, in fact most everyone at the mrc participated in one form or another in the production of tonight's event. it's being our 25th anniversary, ladies and gentlemen, i exert executive privilege year. folks, these are the people responsible for it all. let me ask everyone at the mrc pleased to stand and to be recognized. [applause]

>> branch, i apologize. but i know how you script everything and everything is right to demand. but we would be remiss this 25th anniversary if the staff and the board of directors doesn't acknowledge -- site ask the rest of the border. david, can you support norm up, also? you've had that this honors portion. now will have the honors portion. it's been a quarter of us into, think about it, a quarter of a century ago, everything you heard on the 6:00 news was gospel. we believed it. it was best, polls show the vast majority of americans believe that. except one person.

brand had a mission a vision. he decided that was not the case. it was not accurate. it was not the way it was. and so he started the media research center, a corner of a century ago, and we just want to thank him so much. we have with us here tonight, the board of directors. and i know the staff joined with us and we want you to join with us also. we have actually three things are going to do to honor brent. first, seymour fine, doctor fine, since he didn't get to do the pledge is going to do the honors of unveiling the plaque that will appear in the new headquarters for all to see for years and years to come. >> thank you. brand, we had the wonderful idea

of creating a plaque in tribute to your 25 years of service and i'd like to unveil it and read the inscription. >> its heavy. [applause] ..

>> i was hoping that i could really talk about this because i was so excited when i saw the gift, but some very generous benefactors when they heard that we were going to honor brent tonight spontaneously like this, they said we want to help, and we want to give something. but they're as humble as brent is, so they said we're not to mention it, we're not to say what it is, but, norma, get the suntan lotion out and enjoy and rejuvenate for the next 25 years. [applause] to show you how unscripted it was, we were supposed to have the voice of god tonight, you know, call us up. but you have here the board of directors of the media research center, dr. fine, rebecca mercer, ambassador kurt windsor,

bill walton. harold simmons couldn't be with us tonight. but i want to do one last thing, and that is you should all have some champagne and ask you to prize -- rise and just join with the board and join with the staff of the mrc to thank brent for his quarter century of work, his vision, his dedication. this is someone that works as hard today 25 years later when most of us would be coasting, and he works harder today than he did when he first started this organization. so to brent bozell, one last thing. he's our friend, and i'm proud to call him my friend. cheers, brent bozell. [cheers and applause]

[inaudible conversations] >> okay. any more interruptions before i'm allowed to finish? that's so touching. that is -- and that's so heavy. well, let me, let me thank the people i have to thank, our presenters, laura ingraham, steve hayes, jonah goldberg. you have my deepest gratitude. [applause] cal thomas, you have my deepest respect. orson bean, ali mills, thank you. you are so wonderful people for coming, my thanks. finally, to the acceptors that we honored tonight, reince priebus, tony perkins, foster and lynn frieze, it's absolutely fitting that you be honored. the contributions you've made and continue to make on behalf of our cause and our country are boundless, and we are in your debt.

no foster in your debt -- i'm not really in your debt. that would be a very dangerous thing. now, we have one more exercise tonight and, ladies and gentlemen, it is the biggie. what the hell is this? [laughter] now is the time where normally i ask all of our participants to come on the stage and join us for the quote of the year. but this being our 25th, we're going to do something somewhat different. why not go for the whole enchilada? i ask you, why don't we, all of us, very loudly and obnoxiously and in the most uncivilized manner possible tonight choose the worst reporter in the history of man. [cheers and applause] now, here's how it's going to work. we're going to present you with the four finalists for the worst reporter in the history of man,

and to give you a flavor why each was nominated -- by the way, it was an arduous nomination process. brent baker and i decided. we've prepared a compendium of some of the most out outrageous statements they've made over the years. watch each collage, do not throw things at the screens. we paid a damn fortune for them. [laughter] watch these snippets quietly. smell the sweet nectar of distortions and deceptions. savor the character assassination. be one with the shamelessly sycophantic slobbering at the altar of liberalism. after those four collections are concluded, then i'll bring on our participants back on the stage, and it's then that we'll have the formal vote for the worst reporter in the history of man.

that's when you can let it fly. but, hines, a note to your relatives: easy on the plates. okay. to our four finalists. our first finalist for the worst reporter in the history of man is none other than gunga dan "what's the frequency" rather. how can he not make the grade? he's delighted us for decades with one inaccurate and utterly inane report after another. he can now be found on the ginsu knife channel still insisting those doctored national guard documents are actually somehow real. roll the tape. ♪ ♪ >> you and the president are sending missiles to the ayatollah of iran. can you explain how -- you are supposed to be -- you are.

you're an antiterrorist network. iran was officially a terrorist state. >> [inaudible] >> how could you, how could you sign on to such a policy? ♪ ♪ >> it is not just congress that is taking a sharp turn to the right, the surge to the right on capitol hill is making waves all over the country on openly politically-partisan and sometimes racist radio. the new republican majority in congress took a big step today on it legislative agenda to demolish or damage government aid programs, many of them designed to help children and the poor. is there or is there not some concern of the public perception in some quarters, not all of them democratic, that this is, in fact, the kind of effort at a, quote, coup. that is, you have a twice-elected, popularly-elected

president of the united states, and so those you mentioned in the republican party who dislike him and what he stands for having been unable to beat him at the polls have found another way to get him out of office? cbs news has exclusive information including documents that now sheds new light on the president's service record. "60 minutes" has obtained government documents that indicate mr. bush may have received preferential treatment in the guard after not fulfilling his commitments. ♪ ♪ >> tonight we have new documents and new information on the president's military service and the first-ever interview with the man who says he pulled the strings to get young george w. bush into the texas air national guard. >> you sorry about that now? >> no. >> think the report was correct? >> yes. and i think most people know by now that it was correct. ♪ ♪ >> i want to ask you flat out, do you think president clinton's

an honest man? >> yes, i think he's an honest man. >> do you really? even though he lied to jim lehrer's face -- >> who among us has not lied about something? i think you can be an honest and lie about any number of things. ♪ ♪ >> somebody, i don't know -- [inaudible] it's a dumb ass thing he's doing. you know, i've been a dumb ass all my life. >> dan rather! all right. let it, let it waffle, let it waffle. that's only one, only one. we've got three more. our second finalist is arguably the most pretend white house of the lot. -- pretend white house of the lot. a man who oozes arrogance, the kind of grandiose self-importance borne of so many years struggling in the trenches reading sports scores on a teleprompter. yes, bryant gumbel, you have

always been a pompous ass. roll the tape. ♪ ♪ >> largely as a result of the policies and priorities of the reagan administration, more people are becoming poor and staying poor in this country than in any time since world war #-r. >> welcome today, a day when the budget picture, frankly, seems gloomier than ever. now it seems time to pay the fiddler for the costly dance of the reagan years. let's not debate his presidency, but his passing. as opposed to a man like reagan, nixon was highly regarded as a genuine statesman with a first class mind. with him gone now, who becomes this country's senior statesman? wait a minute -- >> that's scary. >> it's not jimmy carter? >> we have got an awful lot to

talk about this week including the sexual harassment suit against the president, of course, that one's tough to figure out who's really being harassed. in light of the new welfare reform bill, do you think the children need more prayers than ever before? ♪ >> as long as the republican party, you noted some of them, is populated by the pat buchanans, the jesse helms, the jerry falwells, the bob barres, do we have a right to be suspicious? try not to laugh when someone says these are the world's greatest athletes. despite a paucity of blacks that make the winter games look like a gop convention. is it hard holding your own views? >> you know what? in terms of my political views, i hold them in check. i mean, i don't think that someone who watches is inclined to think that i'm one way or the other. [laughter] >> okay.

and i guess you're right here. for our third finalist we decided we need somebody who is perky. christiane amanpour is not perky. diane sawyer is not perky. andrea mitchell might have been perky 30, 40, 50 years ago. [laughter] katie couric is perky. now, to be very honest here, i really didn't think perky katie stood a chance until i watched some of the videos you're about to see. i can assure you, she is well qualified to serve as the worst reporter in the history of man and/or woman.

♪ ♪ >> president carter, you are now considered one of the world's foremost statesmen. you've been called the best ex-president this country has ever had. your reputation has been bolstered tremendously since you left office. how does that make you feel? ♪ >> do you think the american people are not ready for a woman who is as accomplished and career-oriented as hillary clinton? ♪ ♪ >> your speech at the 1992 republican national convention where you talked about a religious world was considered by many to be very polarizing, a real turnoff, self-righteous, superior, exclusionary. >> all those good things. >> do you regret giving that speech? >> i do not. that was one of the best addresses of the 20th century -- >> he says modestly.

>> he says modestly. >> good morning. the gipper was an airhead. also in washington today, a lot of excitement on capitol hill, a movie star showed up to testify before congress, a movie star named al gore. ♪ ♪ >> are you surprised how intimately involved he is in the whole process? >> quite frankly, yes. i said, mr. president, neitherover us has time for this -- neither of us has time for this conversation, especially you, because we really -- but we understand each other, we know where we needed to go. >> [inaudible] he said to you like, get cracking? >> no, never that. we were always cracking. [laughter] ♪ ♪ >> you're so confident, mr. president, and so focused. is your confidence ever saken? do you ever wake up and say, damn, that's just hard. [laughter]

>> wait, we have one more, one more. our fourth and final contestant for the worst reporter in the history of man is going to be nbc's brian williams. a man who has accomplished so little. he can drool like katie couric when he's interviewing barack obama. he can also ooze a level of smarmy anti-conservative heartiness that would make bryant gumbel proud. he's such an awful journalist that he's accomplished the ultimate feat. ladies and gentlemen, i pine for the good old days of tom brokaw. roll the tape. ♪ ♪ >> as far as i'll go describing bill clinton is he's perhaps the most intellectually and physically active person to have held the job in decades.

and i've also said that if americans were paying presidents by the thought, we're getting a bargain in this guy because, my god, he's just always moving. his brain's moving, he hardly sleeps. ♪ ♪ >> is it fair to call him the best former president in, at minimum, modern american history and perhaps, well, i guess the last 200 years? >> which embraces the -- all presidencies. i think, absolutely. ♪ ♪ [laughter] >> on the bus ride along the snowy road to lebanon, new hampshire, i showed him this week's "newsweek" hot off the presses. how does this feel,over all the honors -- of all the honors that have come your way, all the publicity? last time we were together, i handed you a copy of "newsweek." it was the first time you'd held it in your hands with you on the cover. have you yet held this in your hands?

what of the attacks has busted through to you? what makes you angriest at john mccain, the republicans, what's being said about your husband that you want to shout from the mountaintops is not true? >> it was one of the most moving moments in my life, to come across that bridge with this group of kids i've never met before, but we were all together. and that's the sense you get here, we're at the parade route where the president's going to review the parade. this sense of family, of the country coming together, that's what people are looking for, i think. >> al, i'd love to tell you that i have no idea what you're talking about, that everybody here kept their emotions thoroughly in check during the ceremony, but i'd be lying to you, my friend. i'm hoping to find you in a reflective mood on a cloudy day. we're the first to speak to you coming off your summer vacation. how does it recharge you, what do you think about, what do you

see, what do you read about? how are you thinking about your job these days? ♪ >> all right. there you have i, our four finalists. now, ladies and gentlemen, you're going to vote with everything at your disposal if it will make noise. noise, noise, noise, the most noise wins. reince, you're coming up, so easy on that opa thing that you all do. [laughter] at this time let me ask our participants to join me on the stage. please, give them one final round of applause. our emcee, chris plante. come on up. [applause] he's at the bar. where is he? there, okay. our presenters, laura ingraham, steve hayes, jonah goldberg. come on up, come on up. [applause] our acceptors, reince priebus,

marjorie, tony perkins, foster and lynn frieze, come up. cal thomas, orson bean, ali mills. come on up, thank you. [applause] we have everyone -- where the hell is plante? okay. chris is at the bar. all right. we'll go ahead without him. okay. so here's how it's going to go. i'm going to show you a picture on the big screen, on the big towels there, and then you're going to vote with noise. our esteemed judges are going to tabulate this noise and confer among themselves, and we'll be making the ultimate decision. so are we ready? okay. firm one, will it be goofy dan rather? [cheers and applause]

good. okay. there's passion, there's passion. the second nominee for the worst reporter in the history of man, will it be the arrogant bryant gumbel? [cheers and applause] all right. are we getting this? third, perky katie couric. [cheers and applause] [laughter] or the smarmy brian williams.

[cheers and applause] judges? [inaudible conversations] >> okay, we have a runoff. we need two-thirds in the best democratic national convention tradition. [applause] our two finalists are dan ratherrer and katie couric. [cheers and applause] we're going to do it again. if we can roll their faces, we're ready, just give me the

high sign. i can't see you, so how are you going to give me the high sign? all right, we're going to do it again. are you -- do that, do that yoga thing. all right. dan rather. [cheers and applause] katie couric. [cheers and applause] [laughter] >> i wonder who won that one? [laughter] well, katie clear. clear, hands down? unanimous, unanimous winner.

dan really -- let's just for the about dan. can we just forget about dan? relegate him to the old anchors' bone yard or something? so is it -- [inaudible] >> all right, all right. ♪ ♪ >> katie couric, ladies and gentlemen. it's a very proud moment for her. unfortunately, she couldn't be here, but we do have videotape of -- [inaudible] >> it's like a fantastic soy an. voyage. she is the only news anchor we've seen from the inside out. laugh. >> thank you, chris. all right. so katie couric is now the worst reporter in the history of man and/or woman, which is wonderful. ladies and gentlemen, thank you. thank you for coming tonight. we're not done quite yet.

the part is over. the party's going to continue on the other side where the davidson brothers are going to be performing, and the bar's open in the back. thank you. god bless you, god bless our board of directors, good night. [cheers and applause] >> a quick check now on what you can expect to see live today on the c-span networks. at noon eastern on c-span it's aous oversight committee hearing on the september 11th attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. officials who are in charge of diplomatic security in libya will testify about attempts to improve security there before that attack took place. again, that's live at noon on c-span. on c-span3 jpmorgan chase president jamie dimon will discuss the economy at an event here if washington. time on that is 12:30 eastern. and be here on c-span2 the chair of the joint chiefs of staff, general martin dempsey, is the luncheon speaker at the national press club. his remarks live also at 12:30, again here on c-span2.

>> look at what president obama did on the budget. nothing. except borrow and spend. and as a result of the president's abdication of leadership, as a result of seeing the most predictable economic crisis in our country's history and not fixing it, our credit rating was downgraded for the first time in our history. >> we laid out a $4 trillion debt conduction plan over the next ten years, four trillion. we've already passed a trillion of it. ladies and gentlemen, these guys vote against everything. no, no, no, no, i really mean it. not only do they say they don't like our plan, okay, i get that. you don't like our plan. what's your plan? >> thursday, congressman paul ryan and vice president joe biden will face off in their only debate. abc news moderates from center college in danville, kentucky, and you can watch and engage with c-span with our live debate preview at 7 p.m. eastern followed by two ways to watch the debate at 9.

on c-span, both candidates on screen the swire debate, and on c-span2 the multicamera version of the debate all followed by your cawls, e-mails and tweets at 10:30. follow our live coverage at c-span, c-span radio and online at c-span.org. >> and our politics coverage continues now with the 2008 vice presidential debate between then-delaware senator joe biden and alaska governor sarah palin. this is not only the most-watched vice presidential debate in history, but it's also the second post-watched debate ever after the 1980 meeting between ronald reagan and jimmy carter. senator biden and governor palin met at washington university in st. louis. moderator was gwen ifill of pbs. this is about an hour, 40 minutes. >> moderator: good evening from washington university in st. louis, missouri, i'm gwen

ifill of the "newshour" and washington week on pbs. welcome to the first and the only 2008 vice presidential debate between the republican nominee, governor sarah palin of alaska, and the democratic nominee, joe biden of delaware. the commission on presidential debates is the sponsor of this event, and the two remaining presidential debates. tonight's discussion will cover a wide range of topics including domestic and foreign policy matters. it will be divided roughly into five-minute segments. each candidate will have 90 seconds to respond to a direct question and then an additional two minutes for rebuttal and follow-up. the order has been determined by a coin toss. the specific subjects and questions were chosen by me and have not been shared or cleared with anyone on the campaigns or on the commission. the audience here in the hall has promised to remain very polite; no cheers, applause, no untoward outbursts.

except right at this minute, now, as we welcome governor palin and senator biden. [cheers and applause] >> nice to meet you. hey, can i call you joe? >> you sure can. >> thank you, gwen. thank you, thank you. [cheers and applause] >> moderator: welcome to you both. as we had determined by a coin toss, the first question will go to senator biden with a 90-second follow-up from governor palin. the house of representatives this week passed a bill, a big bailout bill, or didn't pass it, the senate passed it. and the house is yes, sirring with it tonight -- wrestling with it tonight. senator biden, was it the worst of washington or the best of washington that we saw play out? biden: let me begin by thank

youing you for hosting this, and, governor, it's a pleasure to meet you. i think it's near the best or worst of washington, but it's evidence of the fact that the economic policies of the last eight years have been the worst economic policies we have ever had. as a consequence, you've seen what's happened on wall street. if you need any more proof positive of how bad the economic theories have been, this excessive deregulation, the failure to oversee what was going on, letting wall street run wild, i don't think you needed any more evidence than what you see now. so the congress has been put in a very difficult spot. but barack obama, um, laid out four basic criteria for any kind of rescue plan here. he, first of all, said there has to be oversight. we're not going to write a check to anybody unless there's oversight for the secretary of treasury. he secondly said you have to focus on homeowners and folks on main street. thirdly, he said you have to treat the taxpayers like investors in this case. and lastly, what you have to do

is make sure the ceos don't benefit in this because this could end up in the long run people making money off of this rescue plan. and so a consequence of that, it brings us back to maybe the fundamental disagreement between governor palin and me and senator mccain and barack obama. and that is that we're going to fundamentally change the focus of the economic policy. we're gog to focus on the middle class, because it's when the middle class is growing, the economy grows, and everybody does well. not just focus on the wealthy and corporate america. >> moderator: thank you, senator. governor palin? palin: thank you, gwen, and i thank the commission also. i appreciate this privilege of being able to be here and speak with americans. you know, i think a good barometer here as we try to figure out has this been a good time or a bad time in america's economy is go to a kids' soccer game on saturday and turn to any parent there on the sideline and ask them, how are you feeling about the economy. and i'll betcha you're going to hear some fear in that parent's voice, fear regarding the few

investments that some of us have in the stock market. did we just take a major hit with those investments? fear about how are we going to afford to send our kids to college, a fear as small business owners perhaps how we're going to borrow any money to increase inventory or hire more people. the barometer there, i think, is going to be resounding that our economy is hurting, and the federal government as not provided a sound oversight that we need and that we deserve, and we need reform to that end. now, john mccain, thankfully, has been one representing reform. two years ago, remember, it was john mccain who pushed so hard with the fannie mae and freddie mac reform measures. he sounded that warning bell. people in the senate with him, his colleagues didn't want to listen to him and wouldn't go towards that reform that was needed then. i think that the alarm has been heard, though, and there will be that greater oversight. again, thanks to john mccain's bipartisan efforts that he was so instrumental in bringing folks together over this past

week, even suspending his own campaign to make sure he was putting excessive politics aside and putting the country first. >> moderator: you both would like to be vice president. senator biden, how as vice president would you work to shrink this gap of polarization which has sprung up in washington which you both have spoken about tonight? biden: well, that's what identify done my -- i've done my whole career on very, very controversial issues dealing with violence against women to trying to get something done about the genocide going on in the bosnia. and i've been able to reach across the aisle. i think it's fair to say that i have almost as many friends on the republican side of the aisle as i do on the democratic side of the aisle. but am i able to respond -- are we able to -- >> moderator: you may, if you like. biden: yeah. well, you know, until two weeks ago, it was two mondays ago john mccain said at 9:00 in the morning that the fundamentals of the economy were strong. two weeks before that he said, george, we've made great

economic progress under george bush's policy. 9:00 the economy was strong, 11:00 that same day two mondays ago, john mccain said that we have an economic crisis. that doesn't make john mccain a bad guy, but it does point out he's out of touch. those folks on the sidelines knew that two months ago. >> moderator: governor palin? you may respond. palin: john mccain in referring to the fundamental of our economy being strong he was talking to and about the american work force, and the american work force is the greatest in this world with the ingenuity and the work ethic that is just, um, entrenched in our work force. that's a positive, that's encouragement, and that's what john mccain meant. now, what i've done as a governor and as a mayor is truly had that track record of reform, and i've joined a team that is a team of mavericks with john mccain, also with his track record of reform where we're known for putting partisan politics aside to just get the job done. now barack obama, of course, he's pretty much only voted along his party lines. in fact, 96% of his votes have

been solely along party line. not having that proof for the american people to know that his commitment, too, is, you know, put the partisanship, put the special interests aside and get down to getting business done for the people of america. we're tired of the old politics as usual, and that's why, with all due respect -- i do respect your years in the u.s. senate, but i think americans are craving something new and different and that new energy and new commitment that's going to come with reform. i think that's why we need to send the maverick from the senate and put him in the white house, and i'm happy to join him there. >> moderator: governor, senator, neither of you really answered that last question. i'm going to come back to that -- [laughter] throughout the evening to try to see if we can look for it as well. now, the next question is to talk about the subprime lending meltdown. who do you think was at fault? i start with you, governor palin. was it the greedy lenders? was it the risky home buyers who shouldn't have been buying a home in the fist place? and what should you be doing about it?

palin: darn right it was the predator lenders who tried to talk americans into thinking it was smart to buy a $300,000 if we could only afford a $100,000 house. there was deception there, and there was greed, and there is corruption on wall street. and we need to stop that. again, john mccain and i, that commitment that we have made and we're going to follow through on that, getting rid of that corruption. one thing that americans do at this time also, though, is let's commit ourselves, just everyday american people, joe six-pack, hockey moms across the nation. i think we need to band together and say never again. never will we be exploited and taken advantage of again by those who are managing our money and loaning us these dollars. we need to make sure that we demand from the federal government strict oversight of those entities in charge of our investments and our savings, and we need also to not get ourselves in debt. let's do what our parents told us before we probably even got that first credit card.

don't live outside of our means. we need to make sure that as individuals we're taking personal respondent -- responsibility through all this. it's not the american people's fault that the economy is hurting like it is, but we have an opportunity to learn a heck of a lot of good lessons through this and say never again will we be taken advantage of. >> moderator: senator? biden: well, gwen, two years ago barack obama warned about the subprime mortgage crisis. john mccain said shortly after that in december he was surprised there was a subprime mortgage problem. john mccain while barack obama was warning about whatly givingn interview to "the wall street journal" saying that i'm always for cutting regulations. we let wall street run wild. john mccain, and he's a good man, but john mccain thought that the answer is that tried and true republican response, deregulate, deregulate. so what you had is you had

overwhelming, quote, deregulation. you had, actually, the belief that wall street could self-regulate itself. and and while barack obama was talking about reinstating those regulations, john on 20 different occasions in the previous year and a half called for more deregulation. matter of fact, john recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry, deregulate it and let the free market move like he did for the banking industry. so deregulation was the promise, and guess what? those people who would say don't go into debt, they can barely pay to fill up tear gas tank. i was recently at my local gas station, asked a guy named joey, i said, joey, how much did it cost to fill your tank? you know what his answer was? he said, i don't know, joe, i never have enough money to do it. the middle class needs relief, tax relief, they need help now. the focus will change with barack obama. >> moderator: governor, please, if you want to respond to what he said about -- palin: i'd like to respond about the tax increases.

you know, we can speak in agreement that darn right we need tax relief for americans so that jobs can be created here. now, barack obama and senator biden also voted for the largest tax increases in u.s. history. barack had 94 opportunities to side on the people's side and reduce taxes, and 94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction. 94 times. now, that's not what we need to create jobs and really bolster and heat up our economy. we do need the private sector to be able to keep more of what we earn and produce. government's going to have to learn to be more efficient and live with less if that's what it takes to rein in the government growth that we've seen today. but we do need tax relief, and barack obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year. that's a lot of middle income, average american families, to

increase taxes on them? i think that is a way to kill jobs and continue to harm our economy. >> moderator: senator? biden: charge is absolutely not true. barack obama did not vote to raise taxes. the vote she's referring to, john mccain voted the exact same way. it was a budget procedural vote. john mccain voted the same way, it did not raise taxes. number two, using the standard that the governor uses, john mccain voted 477 times to raise taxes. it's a bogus standard. but if you notice, gwen, the governor did not answer the question about deregulation. did not answer the question of defending john mccain about not going along with the deregulation, letting wall street run wild. he did support deregulation almost across the board. that's why we got -- >> moderator: would you like to have an opportunity to answer that? palin: i'm still on the tax thing because i want to correct you on that again, and i want to let you know what i did as a governor or mayor, i'm going to talk straight to the american

people and let 'em know my track record also. as mayor every year i was in office, i did reduce taxes. i eliminated personal property taxes and eliminated small business inventory taxes, and as governor we suspended our state fuel tax. we did all those things knowing that that is how our economy would be heated up. now, as for john mccain's adherence to rules and regulations and pushing for even harder and tougher regulations, that is another thing that he is known for though. look at the tobacco industry, look at campaign finance reform -- >> moderator: okay. our time is up here. palin: okay. >> moderator: we're going to move on. senator biden, let's talk about taxes. biden: good. >> moderator: you have proposed raising taxes on people who earn over $250,000 a year. the question for you is why is that not class warfare? and the same question for you, governor palin, is you have proposed a tax the employer health men facilities which some studies say would actually throw five million more people onto

the rolls of the uninsured. i want to know why that isn't taking things out on the poor. starting with you, senator biden. biden: well, gwen, where i come from it's called fairness, just simple fairness. the middle class is struggling. the middle class under john mccain's tax proposals, 100 million families, middle class families, households to be precise, they got not a single change, they got not a single break in taxes. no one making less than $250,000. under barack obama's plan we'll see -- won't see one single penny raised in any tax. in 95% of the people in the united states of america making hess than $150,000 will get a tax break. now, that seems to me to be simple fairness. the economic engine of america is the middle class. it's the people listening to this broadcast. when you do well, america does well.

even the wealthy do well. this is not punitive. john wants to add $300 million -- billion dollars in new tax cuts per year for corporate america and the very wealthy. while giving virtually nothing to the middle class. we have a different value set. the middle class is the economic engine. it's fair, they deserve the tax breaks, not the super wealthy who are doing pretty well. they don't need any more tax breaks. and by the way,tail pay no more than they -- they'll pay no more than they did under ronald reagan. >> moderator: governor? palin: i do take issue with that redistribution of wealth principle that seems to be espoused by you. when you talk about barack's plan to tax increase affecting only those making $250,000 a year or more, you're forgetting the millions of small businesses that are going to fit into that category. so they're going to be the ones paying higher taxes, thus resulting in fewer jobs being created and less productivity. now, you said recently that higher taxes or asking for

higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic. um, in the middle class of america which is where todd and i have been, you know, all of our lives, that's not patriotic. patriotic is saying, government, you know, you're not always the solution. in fact, too often you're the problem. so, government, lessen the tax burden on the private sector and on our families and get out of the way and let the private sector and our families grow and thrive and prosper. an increased tax form rah that barack obama is proposing in addition to nearly a trillion dollars in new spending that he's proposing is the backwards way of trying to grow our economy. >> moderator: governor, are you interested in defending senator mccain's health care plan? palin: i am, because he's got a good health care plan that is detailed, and i want to give you a couple of details on that. he's proposing a $5,000 tax credit for families so that they can get out there, and they can purchase their own health care coverage. and that's a smart thing to do. that's budget neutral.

that doesn't cost the government anything. as opposed to barack obama's plan to mandate health care coverage and have this universal, government-run program. and unless you're pleased with the way that the federal government has been running anything lately, i don't think that it's going to be real pleasing for americans to consider health care being taken over by the feds? but a $5,000 health care credit through our income tax that's budget-neutral, that's going to help. and he also wants to erase those artificial lines between states so that through competition we can cross state lines. and if there's a better plan offered somewhere else, we'd be able to purchase that. so affordability and accessibility will be the keys there with that $5,000 tax credit also being offered. >> moderator: thank you, governor. senator? biden: gwen, i don't know where to start. we don't call a redistribution in my neighborhood, scranton, wilmington, places where i grew up, to say not giving exxonmobil another $4 billion

tax cut this year as john calls for and giving it to middle class people, we don't call that redistribution, we call that fairness, number one. number two, factually, 95% of the small businesses in america, their owners make less than $250,000 a year. they would not get one single, solitary penny increase in taxes, those small businesses. now with regard to the, to the health care plan, you know, with one hand you giveth, the other you taketh. you know how barack obama -- excuse me, you know how john mccain pays for the $5,000 tax credit a family will get? he taxes as income every one of you out there, every one of you listening who has a health care plan through your employer. tsa how he raises $3.6 trillion on taxing your health care benefit to give you a $5,000 plan which his web site points out will go straight to the insurance company. and then you're going to have to replace a $12,000 -- that's the average cost of the plan you get

through your employer, it costs $12,000 -- you're going to have to replace a $12,000 plan because 20 million of you are going to be dropped. 20 million of you are going to be dropped. so you're going to have to replace a $12,000 plan with a $5,000 check you've just given to the insurance company. i call that the ultimate bridge to nowhere. >> moderator: thank you, senator. [laughter] now i want to try to get you both to answer a question that neither of your principals quite answered when my colleague, jim lehrer, asked it last week. starting with you, senator biden. what promises given the events of the week, the bailout plan, all of this, what promises have you and your campaigns made to the american people that you're not going to be able to keep? biden: the one thing we may have to slow down is the commitment to double foreign assistance. we'll probably have to slow that down. we're also going to make sure we do not go forward with the tax cut proposals of the administration -- of john mccain, the existing one for people making over $250,000 which is $130 billion this year

alone. we're not going to support the $300 billion tax cut that they have for corporate america and the very wealthy. we're not going to support another $4 billion tax cut for exxonmobil, and what we're not going to also hold up on, gwen, is we cannot afford to hold up on providing for incentives for new jobs by an energy policy creating new jobs. we cannot slow up on education because that's the engine that is going to give us the economic growth and competitiveness that we need. and we are not going to slow up on the whole idea of providing for affordable health care for americans, none of which when we get to talk about health care is as my, as the governor characterized, characterized. the bottom line here is that we are going to, in fact, eliminate those wasteful spending that exist in the budget right now. a number of things i don't have time because the light is blinking that i won't be able to mention, but one of which is the $100 billion tax dodge that, in

fact, allows people to take their post office box offshore, avoid taxes. i call that unpatriotic. i call that unpatriotic. that's what i'm talking about. >> moderator: governor? palin: well, the nice thing about running with john mccain is i can assure you he doesn't tell one thing to one group and then turns around and tells something else to another group, including his plans that will make this bailout plan, this rescue plan even better. i want to go back to the energy plan, though, because this is an important one that barack obama, he voted for in '05. senator biden, you would remember that in that energy plan that obama voted for, that's what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks. your running mate voted for that. do you know what i had to do in the state of alaska? i had to take on those oil companies and tell 'em, no, you know, any of the greed there that has been kind of instrumental, i guess, in their mode of operation, that budget going to happen in my state.

and that's why tillerson at exxon, bless their hearts, they're doing what they need to do as corporate ceos, but they're not my biggest fans. because what i had to do up there in alaska was to break up a monopoly up there and say, you know, the people are going to come first, and we're going to make sure that we have value given to the people of alaska with those resources and those huge tax breaks aren't coming to the big multi-national corporations anymore. not when it adversely effects the people who live in a state and in this case in a country who should be benefiting at the same time. so it was barack obama who voted for that energy plan that gave those tax breaks to the oil companies that i then had to turn around as a governor of an energy-producing state and kind of undo in my own area of expertise, and that's energy. >> moderator: so, governor and vice president, there's nothing that you have promised as a candidate that you wouldn't take off the table because of this financial crisis we're in? palin: there is not -- how long have i been at this, like five

weeks? there hasn't been a whole lot that i've promised except to do what is right for the american people, put government back on the side of the american people, stop the greed and corruption on wall street, and the rescue plan has got to include that massive oversight that americans are expecting and deserving. and i don't believe that john mccain has made any promise that he would not be able to keep either. >> moderator: senator? biden: again, let's talk about the tax breaks. barack obama voted for an energy bill because for the first time it has real, um, support for alternative energy. when there are separate votes on eliminating the tax breaks for the oil companies, barack obama voted to eliminate them, john did not. let me just ask a rhetorical question. if john wanted to eliminate them, why is he adding an additional $4 billion in tax cuts for exxonmobils of the world that, in fact, already have made $600 billion since 2001? and, look, i agree with the governor, she imposed a windfall

profits tax up there in alaska. that's what barack obama and i want to be able to do. we want the give you back a thousand bucks like she's been able to give money back to her folks up there. but john mccain will not support a windfall profits tax. they've made $600 billion since 2001, and john mccain wants to give them all by itself, separate, no additional bill, all by itself another $4 billion tax cut. if that is not proof of what i say, i'm not sure what can be. so i hope the governor is able to convince john mccain to support our windfall profits tax which she supported in alaska, and i give her credit for it. >> moderator: next question, above palin. still on the economy. last year congress passed a bill that would make it more difficult for debt-strapped mortgage holders to temporary bankruptcy, to get out from under that debt. this is something john mccain supported. would you have? palin: yes, i would have. but here again there have been so many changes in the conditions of our economy in

just even these past weeks that there has been more and more revelation made aware now to americans about the corruption and the greed on wall street. we need to look back even two years ago, and we need to be appreciative of john mccain's call for reform with fannie mae, with freddie mac w the mortgage lenders, too, who were starting to really rear that head of abuse. and the colleagues in the senate weren't going to go there with him. so we have john mccain to thank for at least warning people, and we also have john mccain to thank for bringing in a bipartisan effort, people to the table so that we can start putting politics aside, even putting a campaign aside and just do what's right to fix this economic problem that we are in. it is a crisis. it's a toxic mess really on main street that's affecting wall street. and now we have to be ever vigilant and also making sure that credit markets don't seize up. that's where the main streeters like me, that's where we would really feel the effects. >> moderator: senator biden, you voted for this bankruptcy

bill. senator obama voted against it. some people have said that mortgage holders really paid the price. biden: well, mortgage holders didn't pay the price. only 10% of the people who are, have been affected by this whole switch from chapter 7 to chapter 13 -- it gets complicated, but the point is this: barack obama saw the glass as half empty, i saw it as half full. we disagreed on that, and 85 senators voted one way, and 15 voted the other way. but here's the deal. barack obama pointed out two years ago that there was a subprime mortgage crisis and wrote to the secretary of treasury, and he said you better get on the stick here, you better look at it. john mccain said as early as last december, quote -- i'm paraphrasing -- i'm surprised about this subprime mortgage crisis, number one. number two, with regard to bankruptcy now, gwen, what we should be doing now, and barack obama and i support it, we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to readjust not just the interest rate

you're paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home, but be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that you owe. that would keep people in their homes, actually help banks by keeping it from going under. but john mccain, as i understand it -- i'm not sure of this, but i believe john mccain and the governor don't support that. there are ways to help people now, and there are ways that we are offering are not being supported by, by the bush administration, nor do i believe by john mccain and governor palin. >> moderator: governor palin, is that so? palin: that is not so, but because that's just a quick answer, i want to talk about, again, my record on energy versus your ticket's energy ticket also. i think that this is important to come back to with that energy policy plan, again, that was voted for in '05. when we talk about energy, we have to consider the need to do all that we can to allow this nation to become energy independent. it's a nonsensical position that

we are in when we have domestic supplies of energy all over this great land, and east coast politicians who don't allow energy-producing states like alaska to produce these, to tap into 'em and instead we're relying on foreign countries to produce for us. we're circulating about $700 billion a year into foreign countries, some who do not like america, they certainly don't have our best interests at heart, instead of those dollars circulating here creating tens of thousands of jobs and allowing domestic supplies of energy to be tapped into and to start flowing into these very, very hungry markets. energy independence is the key to this nation's future, to our economic future and to our national security. so when we talk about energy plans, it's not just about who got a tax break and who didn't, and we're not giving oil company tax breaks, but it's about a heck of a lot more than that. energy independence is the key to america's future. >> moderator: governor, i'm happy to talk to you in this

next section about energy issues. let's talk about climate change. what is true and what is false about what we have heard, read, discussed, debated about the causes of climate change? palin: yeah. well, as the nation's only arctic state and being the governor of that state, alaska feels and sees impacts of climate change more so than any other state, and we know that it's real. i'm not one to attribute every activity of man to the changes in the climate. there is something to be said, also, for man's activities, but also for the cyclical temperature changes on our planet. but there are real changes going on in our climate, and i don't want to argue about the causes. what i want to argue about is how are we going to get there to positively affect the impacts? we have got to clean up this planet, we have got to encourage other nations also to come along with us with the impacts of climate change what we can do about that. as governor i was the first

governor to form a climate change subcabinet to start dealing with the impacts. we've got to reduce emissions. john mccain is right there with an all of the above approach to deal with climate change impacts. we've got to become energy independent for that reason also. as we rely more and more on other country that is don't care as much about the climate as we do. we're allowing them to produce and to emit and even pollute more than america would ever stand for. so even in dealing with climate change it's all the more reason that we have an all of the above approach tapping into alternative sources of energy and con conserving tulle -- fuel, conserving our petroleum and hydrocarbons so we can clean up this planet and deal with climate change. >> moderator: senator, what is true and what is false? biden: well, i think it is manmade. i think it's clearly manmade. look, this probably explains the biggest difference between governor palin and joe biden. if you don't understand what the

cause is, it's virtually impossible to come up with a solution. we know what the cause is. the cause is manmade. that's the cause. that's why the polar icecap is melting. now, let's look at the facts. we have 3% of the world's oil reserves, we consume 25% of the oil of the world. john mccain has voted 20 times in the last decade and a half against funding alternative energy sources, clean energy sources; wind, solar, biofuels. the way in which we can stop the greenhouse gases from emitting. we believe, barack obama believes by investing in clean coal and safe nuclear we cannot only create jobs in wind and solar here in the united states, we can export it. china is building one to three new coal-fired plants burning dirty coal per week. it's polluting not only the atmosphere, but the west coast of the united states. we should export the technology by investing in clean coal technology.

we should be creating jobs. john mccain has voted 20 times against funding alternative energy sources and thinks, i guess, the only answer is drill, drill, drill. drill, we must. but it will take ten years for one drop of oil to come out of any of the wells that are going to be begun to be drilled. in the meantime, we're all in trouble. >> moderator: senator mccain has said he supports caps on carbon emissions, senator obama has said he supports clean coal technology which i don't believe you've always supported -- biden: i have supported, that's a fact. >> moderator: clear it up for us. starting with you, governor palin. >> moderator: the chant is drill, baby, drill, and that's what we hear all across this country because people are so hungry for those domestic sources of energy to be tapped into. they know even in my own energy-producing state we have billions of barrels of oil and hundreds of trillions of cubic feet of clean, green natural gas. and we're building a nearly $40

billion natural gas pipeline which is north america's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets. barack obama and senator biden, you've said no to everything in trying to find a domestic solution to the energy crisis that we're in. you even called drilling safe, environmentally-friendly drilling offshore as raping the outer continental shelf. with new technology, with tiny footprints even on land, it is safe to drill, and we need to do more of that. but also in that all of the above approach that senator mccain supports, the alternative fuels will be tapped into, the nuclear, the clean coal. i was surprised to hear you mention that because you had said there isn't anything, such a thing as clean coal, and i think you said it in a rope line at one of the rallies. >> moderator: we do need to keep within our two minutes, but do you support capping carbon emissions? palin: i do, i do. >> moderator: okay, and -- biden: absolutely, we do. we call for setting hard targets, number one --

>> moderator: on clean coal. biden: on clean coal. just take a look at my record. my record for 25 years has supported clean coal technology. a comment made in a rope line was taken out of context. i was talking about exporting that technology to china so when they burn their dirty coal, it won't be as dirty, it will be clean. but here's the bottom line, gwen, how do we deal with global warming with continued addition to carbon emissionses? and if the only answer you have is oil, why did john vote 20 times? maybe he's for everything if it's not helped forward by the government. i don't know, but he voted 20 times against funding alternative -- >> moderator: the next round, pardon me, the next round of questions starts with you, senator biden. do you support, as they do in alaska, granting same-sex benefits to couples? biden: absolutely. do i support granting same-sex benefits? absolutely, positively. look, in a obama/biden administration, there will be

absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple. the fact of the matter is that under the constitution we should be granted same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospital, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, etc. that's only fair. it's what the constitution calls for. and so we do support, we do support making sure that committed couples in the same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same constitutional benefits as it relates to their property rights, to the rights of visitation, their rights of insurance, their rights of ownership as heterosexual couples do. >> moderator: governor, would you support expanding that beyond alaska to the rest of the nation? palin: not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman and, unfortunately, that's sometimes where those steps lead. i also want to clarify, if there's any kind of suggestion

from my answer that i would be anything but tolerant of adults in america choosing their partners, choosing relationships, um, that they deem best for themselves, you know, i am tolerant, and i have a very diverse family and group of friends, and even within that group you would see some who may not agree with me on this issue, some very dear friends who don't agree with me on this issue. but, um, in that tolerance also no one would ever propose, not in a mccain/palin administration, to do anything to prohibit visitation in a hospital or contracts being signed, negotiated between parties. but i will tell americans straight up that i don't support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one woman, and i think through nuances we could go round and round about that what actually means, but i'm being as straight up with americans as i can in my nonsupport for anything but a traditional definition of marriage. >> moderator: let's try to avoid nuance, senator.

do you support gay marriage? biden: no. barack obama nor i support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. we do not support that. that is basically a decision to be able to be left to the faiths and people who practice their faiths determination what you call it. the bottom line, though, is -- and i'm glad to hear the governor. i take her at her word, obviously, that she thinks there should be no civil rights distinction, none whatsoever, between a committed gay coup and a committed heterosexual couple. >> moderator: is that what you said? palin: my answer is the same as his, and it is that i do not support gay marriage. >> moderator: wonderful. you agree. on that note, let's move to foreign policy. [laughter] palin: okay. >> moderator: you both have sons who are in iraq or on their way to iraq. you, governor palin, have said that you would like to see a real clear plan for an exit strategy. what should that be, governor?

palin: i am very thankful that we do have a good plan, and the surge and the counterinsurgency strategy in iraq that has proven to work, i am thankful that that is part of the plan implemented under a great american hero, general petraeus, and pushed hard by another great american, senator john mccain. i know that the other ticket opposed this surge, in fact, even a posed funding for -- opposed funding for our troops in iraq and afghanistan. barack obama voted against funding troops there after promising that he would not do so and, senator biden, i respected you when you called him out on that. you said that his vote was political, and you said it would cost lives, and barack obama at first said he would not do that. he turned around under political pressure, and he voted against funding the troops. we do have a plan for withdrawal. we don't need early withdrawal out of iraq. we cannot afford to ruse there, or we're going to be to better off in the war in afghanistan either. we have got to win in iraq.

and with the surge that has worked, we're now down to presurge numbers in iraq, that's where we can be. we can start putting more troops in afghanistan as we also work with our nato allies who are then strengthening us. and can we need to grow our military. we cannot afford to lose against al-qaeda and the shia extremists who are still there, still fighting us, but we're getting closer and closer to victory, and it would be a travesty if we quit now in iraq. >> moderator: senator? biden: with all due respect, i didn't hear a plan. barack obama's offered a clear plan. shift responsibility to the iraqis over the next 16 months, draw down our combat troops. ironically, the same plan that maliki, the prime minister of iraq, and george bush are now negotiating. the only odd man out here, only one left out is john mccain. number one. number two, with regard to barack obama not, quote, funding the troops, john mccain voted the exact same way.

john mccain voted against funding the troops because the amendment he voted for, voted against had a timeline in it to draw down american troop. and john said i'm not going to fund the troops if, in fact, there is a timeline. barack obama and i agree fully and completely on one thing, you've got to have a timeline to draw down the troops and shift responsibility to the iraqis. we're spending $10 billion a month while the iraqis have an $80 billion surplus. barack says it's time for them to spend spend their own money, have the 400,000 military we've trained for them begin to take their own responsibility and gradually over six months, 16 months withdraw. john mccain -- this is a fundamental difference between us -- we will end in this war. for john mccain there is no end in sight. to end this war. fundamental difference. we will end this war. >> moderator: governor? palin: um, your plan is a white

flag of surrender in iraq, and that is not what our troops need to hear today, that's for sure, and it's not what our nation needs to be able to count on. you guys opposed the surge. the surge worked. barack obama still can't admit the surge works. we'll foe when we're finished in iraq -- we'll know when we're finished in iraq when the iraqi government can govern its people and when the iraqi security forces can secure it people. and our commanders on the ground will tell us when those conditions have been met. and maliki and talabani, also, in working with us are knowing, again, that we're getting closer and closer to that point, that victory that's within sight. now, you said regarding senator mccain's military policies there, senator biden, that you supported a lot of these things. in fact, you said that you wanted to run, you'd be honored to run with him on the ticket, and that's an indication, i think, of some of the support that you had at least until you became the vp pick here. [laughter] you also said that barack obama was not ready to be commander in

chief, and i know, again, that you opposed the move that he made to try to cut off funding for the troops, and i respect you for that. i don't know how you can defend that position now, um, but i know that you know especially with your son in the national guard, and i have great respect for your family, also, and the honor that you show our military. barack obama, though, another story there. anyone i think who can cut off funding for the troops after promising not to, that's another story. >> moderator: senator biden? biden: john mccain voted to cut off funding for the troops. let me say that again. john mccain voted against an amendment containing $1,600,000,000 that i had gotten to get mraps, those things that are protecting the governor's son and, pray god, my son and a lot of other sons and daughters. he voted against it. he voted against the funding because he said the amendment had a timeline in it to end this war, and he didn't like that. but let's get straight who has been right and wrong.

john mccain and dick cheney said while i was saying we would not be greeted as liberators, we would not -- this war would take a decade, not a day, not a week, not six months, we would not be out of there quickly, john mccain was saying the sunnis and shias got along with each other without reading the history of the last 700 years. john mccain said there'd be enough oil to pay for it. i love him. as my mother would say, god love him, but he's been dead wrong on the fundamental issues relating to the conduct of the war. barack obama has been right. there are the facts. >> moderator: let's move on to iran and pakistan. i'm curious about what you think, starting with you, senator biden. which is the greatest threat, a nuclear iran or an unstable pakistan? explain why? biden: well, they're both extremely dangerous. i always have focused, as you know, gwen, i've been focusing on for a long time along with barack on pakistan. pakistan already has nuclear weapons. pakistan already has deployed

nuclear weapons. pakistan's weapons can already hit israel and the mediterranean. iran getting a nuclear weapon would be very, very destabilizing. they are more than -- they are not close to getting a nuclear weapon that's able to be deployed. so they're both very dangerous. they'd both be game changers. but, look, here's what the fundamental problem i have with john's policy about terror and stability. john continues to tell us that the central war and the front on terror is in iraq. i promise you, if an attack comes on the homeland, it's going to come as our security service has said, it's going to come from al-qaeda planning in the hills of afghanistan and pakistan. that's where they live, that's where they are, that's where it will come from. and right now that resides in pakistan, a stable government needs to be established. we need to support that democracy by helping them not only with their military, but with their governance as well as their economic well being.

there have been 7,000 madrassas built along that border. we should be helping them build schools to compete for those hearts and minds of the people in the region so we actually are able to take on terrorism. and by the way, that's where bin laden lives, and we will go at him if we have actionable intelligence. >> moderator: governor? nuclear pakistan, unstable pakistan, nuclear iran? palin: both are extremely dangerous, of course, and as for who termed that central war on terror being in iraq, it was general petraeus and al-qaeda, both leaders there and it's probably the only thing they're ever going to agree on, but that it was a central war on terror is in iraq. you don't have to believe me or john mccain on that, i would believe petraeus and that leader of al-qaeda. an armed, nuclear-armed especially iran is so extremely dangerous to consider, they cannot be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons. period. israel is in jeopardy, of

course, when we're dealing with ahmadinejad as the leader of iran. iran claiming that israel is, he termed it a stinking corporation, a country that should wiped off the face of the earth. now, a leader like ahmadinejad who is not sane or stable when he says things like saw that is not one whom we can allow to acquire nuclear energy, nuclear weapons. ahmadinejad, kim jung-il, the castro brothers, others who are dangerous dictators are ones that barack obama has said he would be willing to meet with without preconditions being met first. an issue like that taken up by a presidential candidate goes beyond naivete and goes beyond poor judgment. a statement that he made like that is downright dangerous because leaders like ahmadinejad who would seek to acquire nuclear weapons and wipe off the face of the earth an ally like we have in israel should not be met with without preconditions and diplomatic efforts being

undertaken first. >> moderator: governor and senator, i want you both to respond to this. secretaries of state baker, kissinger, powell, baker, they have all advocated some level of engagement with enemies. do you think these former secretaries of state are wrong on that? >> moderator: no. and dr. kissinger especially, i had a good conversation with him recently, and he shared with me also his passion for diplomacy, and that's what john mccain and i would engage in with also. but, again, with some of these dictators who hate america and what we stand for, our freedom, our tolerance, our respect for women's rights, those who would try to destroy what we stand for cannot be met with sitting down on a presidential level as barack obama had said he would be willing to do. that is beyond bad judgment, that is dangerous. no, diplomacy is very important. first and foremost, that is what we would engage in.

but diplomacy is hard work by serious people. it's lining out clear objectives and having your friends and your allies ready to back you up there and have sanctions lined up also before any kind of presidential summit would take place. >> moderator: senator? biden: can i clarify this? that's just simply not true about barack obama. he did not say he'd sit down with ahmadinejad. the fact of the matter is it surprises me that senator mccain doesn't realize that ahmadinejad does not control the security apparatus in iran. number two, five secretaries of state did say we should talk with and sit down. now john and governor palin now say -- they have a passion, i think the phrase was, a passion for diplomacy and that we have to bring our friends and allies along. our friends and allies have been saying, gwen, sit down, talk, talk, talk. our friends and allies have been saying that. five secretaries of state, three of them republicans. and john mccain has said he would go along with an

agreement, but he wouldn't sit down. now, how do you do that when you don't have your administration sit down and talk with the adversary? and look what president bush did. after five years he finally sent a high of ranking diplomat to meet with the highest-ranking diplomats in iran in europe to try to work out an arrangement. .. two-state solution of the

solution? palin: a two-state solution is the solution. secretary rice had recently met with leaders unwanted or the other they are also in the waning days of the bush administration trying to forge that peace, and it needs to be done and that would top of an agenda i am also under mccain patron administration, israel is our strongest and best ally in the middle east. we've got to assure them we will never allow a second holocaust. despite again warnings from iran and any other country that would seek to destroy israel, but that is what they would like to see. we will support israel. a two-state solution, building our embassy also in jerusalem, those things that we look forward to being of to accomplish with this key seeking nation. they have a track would've been able to forge the peace agreements. they've succeeded with jordan. they succeeded with egypt. i'm sure we'll see more success there also. it's got to be a commitment of the united states of america though and i can promise you in

a mccain-paling administration that commitment is their work with our friends in israel. biden: when no one has been a better front of his with an joe biden. i never would have joined the ticket if i was not sure barack obama shared my passion. but you asked the question that whether or not visit administration policy have made sense or something to that affect. it has been abject failure. visit administration policy. in fairness to secretary rice, she's trying to turn it around now in the seventh or eighth year. here's what the president said when we said no. insisted on electionn the west bank when i said and others said and barack obama said, big mistake. hamas will win. what happened? hamas one. when we kicked along with france we kicked hezbollah out of lebanon, i said and barack said, move nato forces in there, fill the vacuum because you don't know, if you don't, hezbollah will control.

now what's happened? hezbollah is a legitimate part of the government in the country immediately to the north of israel. the fact of the matter is the policy of this administration has been abject failure. and speaking of freedom, the only thing on the march is iran. it's closer to a bomb. its proxies now have a major stake in lebanon, as well as the gaza strip with hamas. we will change this policy with thoughtful, real-life diplomacy that understands that you must back israel and leading to negotiate, support their negotiation, and stand with them, not insist on policies like this administration has. >> moderator: has this administrations quality been an abject failure? palin: i do not believe it has been but i'm still encouraged to know we both love israel and i think that is a good thing to get to agree on, senator biden. i asked respect your position on the. when we talk about the bush administration, there's a time

when americans are going to say enough is enough with your take on constantly looking backwards and pointing fingers and doing the blame game. there have been huge blenders in the worker tipping huge blunders throughout this administration, as there are with every administration. for a ticket the wants to talk much into looking into the future there's just too much finger pointing backwards to after make us believe that's where you're going. positive changes coming. reform of government is coming. we will learn from past mistakes in this administration, and other administrations, and we're going to forge ahead with putting government back on the side of the people and making sure country comes first, putting obsessive partisanship aside. that's what john mccain has been now for in all these years he has been a maverick. he has ruffled feathers, but i'm no senator biden, you have respected him for that and the respect you for acknowledging that. but changes coming. biden: past is prologue. the issue is how different is

john mccain policy going to be to george bush's? i haven't heard anything yet. i haven't heard how his policy can be different on iran than george bush's. i haven't heard how his policy we different was israel than george bush's. i have heard how his policy afghanistan is going to be different than george bush's. i haven't heard how his policy in pakistan is going to be different. it may be but so far it is the same as george bush's. and you know where this policy has taken us. we will make significant changes. so once again, we are the most respected nation in the world. that's what we're going to do trim a governor, on another issue, interventionism, nuclear weapons. what should be the trigger, or should there be a trigger when nuclear weapons use is put into play? palin: nuclear weaponry of course would be the end-all of just too many people into many parts of our planet so those dangerous regimes i can cannot

be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons, he. are nuclear weapon in the u.s. issues has deterred and that's a stable way to use nuclear weaponry. but for those countries, north korea also under kim jong-il, we've got to make sure that we're putting the economic sanctions on these countries and their friends and allies supporting us to make sure that leaders like kim jong-il and ahmadinejad are not allowed to acquire, to proliferate or to use those nuclear weapons. it is that important. can we talk about afghanistan real quick? i'd like to quickly mention there, too, when you look back and you say that the bush administration policy on afghanistan perhaps would be the same as mccain, that's not accurate. the principle, not the exact strategy by the search principles need to be implemented in afghanistan also. that perhaps would be a difference with the bush administration. barack obama had said that all we're doing in afghanistan is

raiding villages and killing civilians. and such a reckless, reckless comment. and untrue comment again hurts our cause. that's not what we're doing. we are fighting terrorists and securing democracy and we are building schools for children so that there's opportunity in that country also. there'll be a big difference and we will win in afghanistan also. >> moderator: center, you may talk about nucleus and also afghanistan. biden: facts matter, win. the fact is our commanding general in afghanistan said today that a search, the search principles used in iraq will not -- let me say this again. our commanding general in afghanistan said the search principle in iraq will not work in afghanistan. not joe biden. our commanding general in afghanistan. he said we need more troops, government building, we need to spend more money on

infrastructure in afghanistan. look, we have spent more money. we spent more money in three weeks on combat in iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in afghanistan building the country. let me say it again. three weeks in iraq to seven years, seven years, six and half years in afghanistan. that's number one. number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. john mccain voted against the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty that every republican has supported. john mccain has a post a mini the nuclear test ban treaty with an amendment to allow for inspection. john mccain has not been, has not been the kind of supporter for dealing with, let me put it another way. my time is almost a. barack obama the first he did when came to the net state

senate, new senator, reached across the aisle with dick lugar, republican and said we've got to do something but keeping nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists. they put together piece of legislation that, in fact, a serious and real. on the to at least that i named i know that john mccain has been opposed to extending the arms control regime in the wor world. palin: first, mcclellan did not say definitively that the surge principles would not work in afghanistan. certainly account for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different. with nato allies helping us, for one. and even the geographic differences are huge. but the counterinsurgency principles also could work in afghanistan. mcclellan didn't say anything opposite of that. the counterinsurgency strategy going into afghanistan clearing, holding, rebuilding, that civil society and infrastructure can work in afghanistan. those leaders who are over there who have also been advising

george bush on this have not said anything different about that. >> moderator: senator? biden: our commanding general did say that. the fact of the matter is that again, i'll just put in perspective. while barack and i and chuck hagel and dick lugar have been calling for more money to help in afghanistan, more troops in afghanistan, john mccain was saying two years ago quote, the reason we don't ad about afghanistan anymore in the paper, it succeeded. barack obama was saying we need more troops there. again, we spent in three weeks on combat missions in iraq more than we spent in the entire time we have been in afghanistan. that will change under a barack obama administration. >> moderator: give quite a record of you being an interventionist. you've argued for intervention in bosnia and kosovo initially in iraq, pakistan, and now in

darfur, putting u.s. troops on the ground. boots on the ground. is a something that the public has the stomach for? biden: i think the american public has -- i admit i was the first one to recommend it. they save tens of thousands of lives. initially john mccain opposed along with a lot of other people. by the end result was it work. look what we did in boston. we took serbs, croats and bosnian ex-being told everyone how i was everyone, that this would mean that they been fighting and killing everybody for 1000 years and he could never work. there's a relatively stable government now as there is in kosovo. with regard to iraq, i indicated that it would be a mistake to go into -- i gave the president the power. i voted for the power because he said he needed it, not to go to war but to keep the trainee, the u.n. in line to keep sanctions on iraq and not let them be lifted. i a long with dick lugar before

we went to war said if we were to go to war without our allies, without the kind support we needed, we would be there for a decade, costing us tens of billions of dollars. john mccain said that would be okay. i don't have the stomach for genocide when it comes to darfur. we can now impose a no-fly zone. it's within our capacity. we can lead nato if we're willing to take a hard stand. we can't, i've been in those camps in chad. i've seen the suffering, thousands, tens of thousands of people have died and they are dying. we should rally the world to act and we should demonstrate it by our own movement to provide helicopters to get those 21,000 forces of the african union in their now to stop this genocide. >> moderator: thank you, senator. governor. palin: it's so obvious on a washington outsider. summit is not used to the way you guys operate because you, you voted for the war, and now you oppose the war. you are one who says that sony

politicians do, i was for it before i was against it, or vice versa. americans are craving that straight talk and just want to know hey, if you voted for, tell us what you voted for it and it was a war resolution. you supported john mccain's military strategy pretty adamantly until this race and you had opposed the very adamantly barack obama's military strategy, including cutting off funding for the troops also the primary. i watched those debates, and so i remember what those are all about. but as for darfur we can agree on that also, the support of the no-fly zone, making sure all options are on the table also. america is in a position to know. what i've done in a position to help as the governor of a state that's pretty rich in natural resources, we have a $40 billion investment fund, a savings fund called the alaska permanent fund. when i and others in the legislature found out that we had some millions of dollars in

sudan can we call for divestment through legislation of those dollars to make sure we weren't doing anything that would be seen as condoning the activities there in darfur, that legislation hasn't passed yet but it needs to because all of us as individuals and the humanitarians and as elected officials should do all that we can to end of the atrocity in the region of the world. >> moderator: is there a line that should be drawn? biden: absolutely. the line that should be drawn is whether or not we first of all have the capacity to do anything about it, never one. number two, there's certain new lines that had to be drawn internationally. when a country engages in genocide, when a country engages in harboring people who are killing our people, terrorists and they will do nothing about it, at that point that country in my view and in barack's view, forfeit their right to say you have no right to intervene at all. the truth of the matter though is that let's go back to john

mccain strategy. i never supported john mccain strategy on the war. john mccain said exactly what dick cheney said, go back and look at barack obama's statements and my. go look at joe biden.com a contemporaneous. held hearings in the summer before he went to war, saying if we went to work we would not be treated as liberators. we would have a fight. we would be tied down for a decade. it would cost us hundreds of billions of dollars. john mccain by saying the exact opposite. john mccain was lockstep with dick cheney at the point about how this is going to be easy. so john mccain strategy in this war, not just whether or not to go, the actual conduct of the war has been absolutely wrong from the outset. >> moderator: governor. palin: i beg to disagree with you again here on whether you supported barack obama or john mccain strategies. gary king you can say what you want to say before people are asked to vote on this, but we listen to the debate.

i think tomorrow morning the pundits will start doing that who said what at what time and we will have proof of some of this, i begin john mccain, knows how to win the war. who been there. face challenges and he knows what evil is any knows what it takes to overcome the challenges here with our military. he knows to learn from the mistakes from the blunders we have seen in the war in iraq, especially. he will not be evident the strategies, working with their commanders and listen to what they have to say, taking the politics out of these were issues. he will know how to win a war. >> moderator: thank you, governor. probably the biggest cliché by the vice presidency is it's a heartbeat away. everybody is going to see what would happen if the worst happen. how would you disagree and something summer principles, you disagree on alaska, drone and alaska, the national wildlife refuge. how would a biden administration be different from an obama administration is that were to happen?

biden: god forbid that whatever happened. it would be a national tragedy and of historic proportions it were to happen. but if i did i would carry out barack obama's policies. is policies of reinstating the middle class, making sure that they get a fair break, making sure that they have access to affordable health insurance. making sure they did cities tax breaks, making sure we can help their children to get to college. making sure an energy policy that leads us in the direction of not only independence and a cleaner environment but an energy policy that creates 5 million new jobs. a foreign policy that ends this war in iraq. a foreign policy that goes after the one mission the american public gave the president after 9/11, to get and capture or kill bin laden. and to eliminate al qaeda. a policy that would, in fact, engage our allies in making sure that we knew we were acting on the same page and not dictating. and a policy that would reject the bush doctrine of preemption

and regime change and replace it with the doctrine of prevention and cooperation, and ladies and gentlemen, this is the biggest ticket item we have in this election, the most important election you will ever, ever have voted in since 1932. and we are such stark differences. i would follow through on barack's policies to get in essence i agree with everything, every major initiative he has suggested. >> moderator: governor. palin: and heaven forbid yes, that that would ever happen. no matter how this ends up, that that would ever happen with either party. as for disagreeing with john mccain and how our administration would work, what do you expect them a team of mavericks, of course will not agree 100% on everything as we discuss and war, least we can agree to disagree on that one and the going to keep pushing him on antiwar. i have so appreciate his never asked me to check my opinions at the door. he once delivered to debate and healthy debate so we can make

good policy. what i would do also if that were to ever happen though, is to continue the good work he is so committed to come and is putting government back on the side of the people and get rid of the greed and corruption on wall street and in washington. i think we need of a bit of reality from loss element street brought to washington, d.c. so that people there can understand how the average working class family is viewing bureaucracy in the federal government and congress and in action of congress. just everyday working-class americans saying you know, government just get out of my way. if you're going to do any harm and many more things on me and take more of my money and income tax and business taxes, you going to have a choice. in just a few weeks here i needed supporting the ticket that wants to create jobs and bolster oregon and when the war, or you're going to be support a ticket the west increased taxes,

which ultimately kills jobs and is going to hurt our economy. >> moderatoreconomy. biden: can i respond with quickly have to do is go down junichi, cody case rests on our walk and a home depot with the were spent a lot of time and just anybody into whether or not the economic and foreign policy visit administration has made them better off the last eight years, and then ask them whether there's a single major initiative that john mccain differs with the president on. on taxes, on iraq, on afghanistan, on the whole question of how to help education, on the dealing with health care. look, the people in my neighborhood, they did it. they did it and they know they have been getting the short end of the stick. so walk with me in my neighborhood. go back to my old neighborhood and climb -- or go to scranton within. these people know that middle class has gotten the short in. the wealthy have done very well. corporate america's been rewarded you it's time we change. barack obama will change it. >> moderator: governor. palin: say it ain't so, joe.

dr. donna, let's look ahead and tell americans what we have two plan to do for them in the future. dimension education and implied that you do. i know education, you're passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, god bless or. her reward is in heaven, right? i say with education, america needs to be putting a lot more focus on that and our schools have got to be really ramped up in terms of the funding that they're deserting. teachers need to be paid more. i come from a house full of school teachers. my grandma was from my dad, he's a school teacher, has been for many years. my brother who i think is a schoolteacher -- the best school teacher of the year. here's a shout out to all those third grade. you get extra credit for watching this debate. education in america has been in some sense some of our states just accepted to be a little bit lax, and we've got to increase the standards, no child left behind was implemented.

it's not doing the job. we need flexibility in no child left behind. we need to put more of an emphasis on the profession of teaching. we need to make sure that education in either one of our agenda is, i think, absolute top of the line. my kids public school participants right now, if you entered my heart. i'm very, very concerned about where we're going in education, and we've got to wrap it up and put more intention in that arena. >> moderator: everybody gets extra credit tonight. will move onto the next question. governor, you said in july that you have, someone would have to explain to exactly what it is the vice president does. you, center, said you would not be vice president under any circumstances. maybe this is just what was going on at the time. but that was then. looking for what you think the vice presidency is worth now. palin: it was a lame attempt at a joke and yours was a lame attempt at a joke, to because nobody got a. of course, we know what a vice president does. [laughter]

granted yours or mine? palin: they didn't get mine. of course we know what a vice president does, and that's not only preside over the sand and will take that position very seriously also. i'm thankful the constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president also if that vice president so chose to excerpt it in working with the senate. and making sure that we're supportive of the president's policy, and making sure that our president understands where strengths are. john mccain and i've had good conversations about where i would lead with his agenda. and that is energy independence in america. and reform of government over all. and working with families of children with special needs. that's near and your to my heart also. and in those arenas john mccain has cast me and said that's where want you, want you to lead. and i said i can't wait to get there and go to work with you. biden: i hope we'll get back to education because i don't know any government program that john is supporting, not early

education, more money for, the reason no child left behind was lucky i was the money was left behind. we didn't fund. we can get back to that i is an. with regard to the will of the vice president, i had a long talk is ensure the governor did with her principle, in my case with barack. and let me tell you what barack asked me to do. i have a history of getting things done in the united states senator john mccain would acknowledge that. my record shows that. on controversial issues. i would be the first for legislative initiative in the nest is congress for our administration. i was also asked if i wanted a portfolio, my response was no match, but barack obama indicated to me he wanted me with him to help them govern. so every major decision will be making i will be sitting in the room to give him my best advice. he's president, not me. i will give my best advice. one of the things he said early on when he was choosing, he said he wanted pics with leading independent judgment and wouldn't be afraid to tell them if you disagree. that is what my reputation as you know.

so i look forward to working with barack and playing a very constructive role in his presidency. bringing about the kind of change this country needs time when you mentioned a moment ago the constitution might give the vice president more power than it has in the past. to you by the vice president cheney does that the executive branch does not hold -- that is, also a member of the legislative branch? palin: our founding fathers were very wise in allowing to the constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. and we will do what is best for the american people in tapping into that position, and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in position. yeah, so i do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there and we will do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation, and it is not executive experience that it's

partly to be attributed to my ticket vp with mccain, not only as a governor but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulate, as a business owner. it is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the white house also drama vice president in any interpretation of the vice president cheney? try to vice president cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we've had in history. he doesn't realize that article one of the constitution defines the role of vice president of united states. that's the executive. he works in the executive branch. he should understand the. everyone should understand the. and the primary role of the vice president of the united states of america is to support the president of united states of america, give that president his or her best judgment when sought, and as the vice president to preside over the senate only any time when, in fact, there's a tie vote. the constitution is explicit. the only authority the vice

president has from a legislative standpoint is to vote only when there is a tie vote. he has no authority relative to the congress. the ids part of the legislative branch is a bizarre notion, invented by cheney to an grand ice the power of a unitary executive and look where it's gotten us. it has been very dangerous trend let's talk conventional wisdom. governor palin, your achilles' heel is you like expand. your provincial wisdom against you is that your achilles' heel is you lack discipline, senator biden. what is it really for you, governor palin, what is it for you, senator biden? palin: my expense as an executive will be put to good use as a mayor and business owner and oil and gas regulator, and then as governor of a huge state, a huge energy producing state that is counting for must progress towards getting our nation's energy independence and that six and important, but it

wasn't just that experienced tech into. it was my connection to the heartland of america. being a mom, being one who is very concerned about a son in the war, about a special needs child, about kids heading off to college, how are we going to pay the tuition bills, about times hot in our marriage and our past will be that health insurance and we know what other americans are going through as they sit around a kitchen table and try to figure out how are they going to pay out of pocket for health care? we been there also so that connection was important. but even more important is that worldview that i share with the john mccain. that worldview that says that america is a nation of exceptionalism, and we are to be that shining city on a hill as president reagan's so beautifully said, that we're a beacon of hope, and they were unapologetic year. we are not perfect as a nation, but together we represent a perfect ideal, that is democracy and tolerance and freedom and equal rights. those things that we stand for that we can be put to good use

in the force for good in this world. john mccain, i share the inch combine that with being a team with the only track where the of making a big difference in where we have been and reforming and that's a good team. it's a good ticket. .. were gravely injured, i

understand what it's like to wonder if your kid is going to make it. i understand what it's like to sit around the kitchen table with a father that says i have to leave because there's no jobs i have to head down to wilmington and when we get enough money we will bring you down. i and a stand with its light. i live in a beautiful house that might total investment that i have, so i am much better off now but the notion that somehow because i am unman i don't know what it's like to raise two kids alone i don't know what it's like to have a child you're not sure is going to make, i understand. i understand as well as with all due respect the governor or anybody else what it's like for those people sitting around the kitchen table and guess what, they are looking for help. they are not looking for more of the same. >> moderator: governor? palin: people are not looking for more of the same they are looking for change, and john mccain has been the constant

maverick in the senate over all these years. he's taken shots left and right from the other party and his own party because he's had to take on his own party when that time was right and he recognized the was time to put partisanship aside and do what was right for the american people. that's what i've done as governor, take on my party when i had to and work with both sides of the all in my cabinet appointing those who would serve regardless of democrats independence whatever it took to get the job done john mccain's maverick position that he's been has really brought up and indicated by the support he has. look at lieberman and giuliani and romney and all the fuss that come from such a diverse background of policy and partisanship all coming together at this time recognizing he is the man we need to lead in his next four years because these are tumultuous times. we've got to win the war and get

our economy back on track to the we've got to allow the cannot allow the greed and corruption on wall street anymore and not allow the partisanship that has really been entrenched in washington, d.c.. no matter who's been in charge. when the republicans were in charge right didn't see a lot of progress. there are the democrats this last go round the last two years. changes coming and john mccain is the leader of that reform. biden: the maverick? let's talk about the metric john mccain is. he's been on some issues but no maverick on the things that matter to people's lives. he's voted for george bush's budget that put us half a trillion and budget this year. he's not been a maverick in providing health care for people. he is voted against including another 3.6 million children on coverage that of the existing health care plan when he voted in the united states senate. he's not a maverick when it comes to education. he's not supported tax cuts and

significant changes for people being able to send their kids to college. he's not been a maverick on the war were virtually anything that genuinely affect the people that -- things people talk about another the kitchen table. can we get mom's mri and send mary back to school? how are we going to heat the house this winter? he voted against what they call liheap, assistance to people in the winter to be a disease of a maverick on people. >> moderator: final question before the closing statement for you, senator biden. can you think if an issuer and this is for the people just trying to get you in your final de bate, the only debate of this year. can you think of a single issue, policy issue you were forced to change a long-held view in order to accommodate the changed circumstances? biden: i can. when i got in the senate in the judiciary committee as a young

lawyer i was trained in the view that the only thing that mattered is whether or not the nominee appointed suggested by the president had a judicial temperament, had not committed a crime and had been a good student. and it didn't take me long. it was hard to change, but it didn't take me long. about five years to realize the ideology of the judge makes a big difference. that's why i led the fight against judge bork. had he been in the court there would have been a lot of changes i wouldn't like and the american people wouldn't like including roe v wade and issues related to civil rights and civil issues. so, that is one of the intellectual changes that took place in my career as i got a close look at it and that's why i was the first german of the judiciary committee to forthrightly state that it matters what you're judicial philosophy is. the american people have a right to understand it and know it, but i did change on that, and i

glad i did. >> moderator: governor? palin: there have been times when as the mayor and governor we passed budgets i did not veto, and that i think could be considered as something that i caved if you will. but knowing that was the right thing to do in order to progress the agenda for that to work with the legislative body that actually holds the purse strings so there were times when i wanted to do a based budget and cut taxes even more and i didn't have much support to accomplish that. but on the major principal of things know there hasn't been something i've had to compromise on because we always seem to find a way to work together up there in alaska what we've done with a bipartisan efforts to work together, and again, not caring who gets the credit for what as we accomplish things up there and that has just been a part of the operation that i wanted to participate in and that is what we are going to do in washington, d.c. also. bringing the fights to get there, john mccain is known for doing that also to get the

work done for the american people. >> moderator: let's come full circle. you want to bring both sides together. the bipartisanship we saw what happened this week in washington. how do you change the tone as vice president, as number two? [inaudible] john mccain were here he would acknowledge life and about to say. i have been able to work across the aisle on some of those controversy all issues and change my party's mind as well as republicans because i learned a lesson from the former leader of the senate who said to me one day a criticism of jesse helms. he said well would you do if i told you jesse helms adopted a child who was a real need? i said i would feel like a jerk. he said understand one thing. everyone is said here for a reason because there's something their folks like we don't question their motives. i've never since that moment in

my first year question the motives of another member of congress or senate with whom i disagreed on that question and judgment. i think that's why i have the respect i have and i've been able to work as i have in the united states senate. that's a fundamental change barack obama and i will bring to this party, not questioning other people's motives. >> moderator: governor? palin: you did what i did as governor and appoint people regardless of party affiliation, democrat, independent, republican. he walks the walk, you don't just talk the talk. even my own family come a very diverse family coming and we have folks of all political persuasion who live curtin of knowing just that at the end of the day as long as we are all working together for the greater good it's going to be okay. but the policies and the proposals have got to speak for themselves also. and again, voters on november 4th are going to have that trustees their support a ticket, support the policies that create jobs.

you do that by lowering taxes on american workers and on our businesses and build up infrastructure and rein in government spending and make our nation energy independent. you support a ticket that supports policies that will kill jobs by increasing taxes, and that's what the track record shows is the desire to increase taxes, increase spending a trillion dollars spending proposal that's on the table. that's going to hurt our country and saying no to energy independence. clear choice on november 4th. >> moderator: governor coming to get the chance to make the first closing statement. thank palin: i want to thank you. this is an honor and i appreciate senator biden getting to meet you finally into getting to debate with you. i would like more opportunity. i've liked being able to answer these tough questions without a filter even of the mainstream media. kind of telling the viewers what they just heard. i would rather just be able to speak to the american people like we just did and it's so

important that the american people know the choices they have on november 4th. i want to assure you that john mccain and i, we are going to fight for america. we are going to fight for the middle class average everyday american family like mine. i've been there. i know what the hertz car and the challenges are and think all i know the chollet is too of living in america. we are so blessed and i've always been proud to be an american. and so, to the coup has john mccain to beat we have to fight for our freedom also. economic and our national security freedom to read it was ronald reagan that said that freedom is always just one generation away from extinction. we don't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. we have to fight for it and protect it and then handed to them so that they do the same or we are going to find ourselves spending our sunset years telling our children and our children's children about a time in america back in the day when men and women were free.

we will fight for it and there is only one man in this race that has never really fought for you, and that is senator john mccain. >> moderator: thank, governor. senator biden? biden: thank you for doing this and governor, it really was a pleasure getting to meet you. look, folks, this most important election you've ever voted in your entire life, no one can deny with the last eight years have been dug into a very deep hole and here at home with regard to our economy and abroad in terms of our credibility. and there is the need for fundamental change in our economic philosophy as well as our foreign policy. and barack obama and i don't measure progress towards that change based on whether or not we cut more regulations and how the ceos are doing and getting another $4 billion in tax breaks to exxonmobil in the world. we measure progress in america based on whether or not someone can pay their mortgage. whether or not they can send

their kid to college. whether or not you're able to when they send their child like we have a broad and john has as well i might add to fight the very best equipped and have everything they need and they are guaranteed to have the best health care and best education possible. the neighborhood i grew up in was all about dignity and respect and a neighborhood like most of you grew up and in that neighborhood filled with men and women if that taught their children they believed in themselves and if they're honest and work hard and love their country they could accomplish anything. we are running to establish that through our neighborhood. ladies and gentlemen my dad used to have an expression. you get knocked down you get up. it's time for america to get together. america is ready, you are ready. and barack obama is ready to be the next president of the united states of america.

may god bless all of you and god protect our troops. >> moderator: that is tonight's debate i want to thank you the folks on the presidential debates. there are two more debates to come next tuesday october 7th with tom brokaw at belmont university in nashville and on october 15th in new york with bob schieffer. thank you governor palin and biden. [applause] >> appreciate that. thank you so much. [applause]

>> it's so nice to meet you. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

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i walked on c-span the various congressional hearings and congressional deliberations on parties and also the information that is put out by the various think tanks here in washington, d.c.. i like to watch the readings by brian lamb that are on sundays at 8:00 where he hosts with authors and has discussions in that discussion about the books that they have written. it's just an easy way to get information that is in the books without having to read the books.

the supreme court is in full swing of arguments on affirmative action. joining on the phone is adam of "the new york times" to tell us more about the case you had a front page cover story yesterday in "the new york times" featuring abigail fisher. who is she and what is the case

about? >> about a young white woman from texas four years ago the university of texas turned her down and she sued saying that her race had been held against her. that gives rise to a major affirmative action case. questioning whether public colleges and universities can take race into account in fashioning their student bodies to make sure there's educational diversity. >> but as the system for those applying to college? >> it's complicated. they take most of the kids under what people call the top ten system which means a few graduate in the top 10% of high school in texas you automatically get in. that's about 75% of the class. dever 25% is admitted the same way most universities have met which is they take a look at the entire file. academic credentials but other

factors, life experience and race and ethnicity and that's the last piece that abigail fisher says there's no role at all for the government to public universities are of course the government to be sorting people by race. estimates university of texas of austin says what? they say they've increased education of diversity as a compelling government and to the exception of the usual rule the government shouldn't be classifying people by race. nine years ago when a fight-for decision the supreme court said just that, the key vote in the decision, justice sandra day o'connor has retired and has been placed by a more conservative justice samuel alito and that may mean if you light up you will get the result. >> what is the lineup in the case as far as the deficits, who will hear it and decide? >> only eight justices will decide because justice elena

kagan is recused having worked. so eight justices. it's a pretty good bet that for more conservative justices will vote to if not strike down entirely, limit the use of race. the others will go the other way and as usable, justice anthony kennedy will hold the deciding vote. he has on the one hand said some positive things about using race and about the importance of diversity. on the other hand, he's never in his career and voted to uphold an affirmative action plan so she is a real wild card. >> is it possible this could be a 4-4 decision? >> it's not likely that it's possible and if it were, that would have the effect without opinion and without reasoning from the supreme court automatically affirming the decision below which had up held the texas program manning the split would equal that

affirmative action stays the way we know it today. >> is the university of texas the only school that uses this type of system? >> that's right this combination of top ten admissions people called holistic review complaints -- combines and says if you are getting quite substantial diversity like the top ten program and texas is, then you can't add-on this kind of holistic conscious review because we are not crazy about using race by the government and if you have another way to get from here to there we are not going to let you do the extra piece. if that is all they do that only affects texas and it's a big decision but it's not an earthquake. >> what are the other implications of the decision either way it before fifths of the university? >> the broader implication could

be that essentially every single college and university in the land would have to redo the way it thinks about how to assemble its student body, and it could look at all sorts of factors. it could look at economic background and suburban or rural it could look at life experience, but it couldn't look at this aspect of race and the would apply also to private universities because if you take federal money, you can't discriminate on the basis of race and if this is thought to be race discrimination it could affect everybody. sir, that could be quite big. on the other hand, if abigail fisher loses or the court goes off on a technical around saying she doesn't have standing say, it would be a bit of a false alarm and they would leave everything we know in place. >> this is in the first time the university of texas austin has gone before the supreme court of this issue of race.

it's not the only way this issue has come up but years ago in 1950 the university of texas which have affirmatively been discriminated against black people in the pre-civil-rights era was made to admit a black student in the brown v. board of education era and that historical legacy not directly relevant to this case, but it casts a shadow over the case and reminds us that in living memory the united states of firmly discriminated against -- disadvantaged minority in the most pernicious way and the question is have we moved far enough away from those days for their not to be some effort at remediation and an effort to make sure all aspects of society represented in the student bodies.

>> who are the players in this case? >> well, fisher is supported by a small group called the project of underrepresentation which is in many settings including voting rights taken conservative positions. by the fall of the court briefs supporting the university from all aspects of the society including corporations and military leaders who take the view that it's important for them to be able to have leaders from all aspects of society to make sure that young people can model themselves. people who look like them as they try to find their way into society. >> with "the new york times" explaining the supreme court's arguments today